How can i get better at bass?

[petchimp123]

I recently quit lessons. I've been playing bass for 2 years and I've been going to lessons for a year and a half. Right now I'm in a jam band where we need alot of improvisation skills. One of our guitarists is very good at improvising(has been playing for about 4-5 years) and so is the other one even though he has only been playing guitar for a year.

The thing is, i need to learn how to improvise on my bass guitar as soon as possible. I feel like I'm the weakest link in the band. I can't improvise that well in these simple mixolydian aeolian... w/e scales. I haven't even memorized most of them yet. I only know aeolian, blues, lydian, myxolidian, and major/minor penatonic scale. These scales sort of sound bland in the certain keys we play in. Sometimes i hit the "wrong" note when these stupid scales are supposed to be so called "fool-proof".

My question is, how can I improve on bass without an actual teacher(The cost is outweighing the marginal benefit)? What should I practice everything and for how long(i need a set schedule)? How can i improve on improvisation?

[myhot4]

I found a book called the art of walking bass by Bob Magnusson. Its starts off using R-3-5 as the basis for improvisation. There are so many things you can do just with those notes. You will be surprised.

[Eric Grossman]

Books are good, but if you aren't a book type learner, nothing beats transcribing your favorite basslines. Just learn them by ear, as the ear is THE most important thing to develop. Also, pick up an ear training book. There are some good ones out there.

[petchimp123]

I stink at learning by ear. I tried tabing out a blink 182 song and it was intermediate in difficulty. I had to bounce all over the fretboard just to find the right note. I always learn songs with tabs. If i tried tabbing out Limelight, santeria, or around the world, that would have been very hard for me.

Also I have Bass guitar for Dummies and it didn't help at all. It just started throwing random music theory terms at me. But I guess I'll try looking at that book you suggested.

Anymore helpful hints/tips?

[Dave Muscato]

The only way to get better at playing by ear is practice. Go to teoria.com and use their ear-training Flash exercises. Pop in a CD and spend an hour just playing along with each song straight through. Do this for a few weeks and your ears *will* improve.

The problem with the internet & tabs these days is that people don't take the time to develop their ears. People used to sit down with records and wear them out listening to them over & over, learning the parts. Now people just look them up. You are missing a vital part of the process by doing that. Tabs are helpful if you have to learn a song in a hurry but they are not a replacement for transcription.

Practice!

[JamesTheBassBoy]

ask what scales your guitarists use, and memorise the notes, maybe one of em could come round with an acoustic guitar and write a simple chrod progression in the key your playing in, and you could solo over it, until you get relativly good at it. sorta what i did with my guitarists, cept we were in school when doing that :/, or solo over the songs your playing, or you could get a cheap loop station, (they would only come to about $50 if you get the little boss) and record a loop and solo over it, theres many ways to practise improv

[martyman5000]

Petchimp123 is right on the number...I play by ear and have used simple bands and Dummies for reference over the years. I'm slowly learning how to play to guitar and finding the bassline to that guitar line is much easier so learning more than one instrument can also help.

[myhot4]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

The only way to get better at playing by ear is practice. Go to teoria.com and use their ear-training Flash exercises. Pop in a CD and spend an hour just playing along with each song straight through. Do this for a few weeks and your ears *will* improve.

The problem with the internet & tabs these days is that people don't take the time to develop their ears. People used to sit down with records and wear them out listening to them over & over, learning the parts. Now people just look them up. You are missing a vital part of the process by doing that. Tabs are helpful if you have to learn a song in a hurry but they are not a replacement for transcription.

Practice!

Most of the Tabs I found on the net have been wrong. How many ppl actually check them out before playing them out live??

[petchimp123]

Originally Posted by myhot4

Most of the Tabs I found on the net have been wrong. How many ppl actually check them out before playing them out live??

When you go on ultimate-guitar.com, there is a rating next to the tab and if it's a 5 star, the tab is right.

[Jim Powers]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

People used to sit down with records and wear them out listening to them over & over, learning the parts.

Practice!

I agree with Dave, this is how I learned. As you build up a working knowledge of a number of songs you'll begin to recognize some of the base progressions you can build on to improvise. You need the band format to learn the feel for the rhythm section. I hit a few wrong notes as well, learning fast is part of the craft. Now I'd rather play my own line rather than imitate the original note for note, which I find to be much more work but it is the place to start.

[martyman5000]

Listening to other peoples music is great (and playing to tab) if you want to be in a cover band...if you want to be original then use your ear and pick out the notes and tones you like.

[mccartneyman]

I have to vote for listening to records because, although I played trombone and could read music, I taught myself bass when I was 16 by simply listening to the Beatles, Stones and every other Brit invasion band. The beauty of these records was that for the most part they were grounded in I-IV-V progressions. After that, I "graduated' to Motown and Stax/Volt and Atlantic. McCartney, Duck Dunn and James Jamerson area great trio of "teachers." Listen again and again to records and you will see that there are patterns you can use and adapt. I never wrote anything down. Even when I was in bands that covered Yes and other prog rock, I learned by listening. I've been playing 43 years,and today I can play just about anything after having heard it once, although I can read.

[petchimp123]

Yeah I guess I'll try learning by ear, but it's going to be hard. I mean, you basically have to start from scratch with a crapload of notes to pick from and not to mention the artist might be using a different tuning.

[Dennis098]

i learned all my basic music theory. its really not that hard. or much.
Some ear training apps help you get started too... like the interval ear trainer at www.musictheory.net
I would say that transcribing note for note is best.
If you ARE in a cover band, you can make your own lines...make it yours.
but for the sake of learning, its best to get each and every note so you can see what makes the line so good.
if you wanna get good at bass, you have to get good at music. And in the process, you get better at practicing too.
If something is hard, that's exactly what you need to practice.
i've been playing 10 months, and i can transcribe alright. and its almost easy when i have my bass in my hands.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by petchimp123

I recently quit lessons. I've been playing bass for 2 years and I've been going to lessons for a year and a half. Right now I'm in a jam band where we need alot of improvisation skills. One of our guitarists is very good at improvising(has been playing for about 4-5 years) and so is the other one even though he has only been playing guitar for a year.

The thing is, i need to learn how to improvise on my bass guitar as soon as possible. I feel like I'm the weakest link in the band. I can't improvise that well in these simple mixolydian aeolian... w/e scales. I haven't even memorized most of them yet. I only know aeolian, blues, lydian, myxolidian, and major/minor penatonic scale. These scales sort of sound bland in the certain keys we play in. Sometimes i hit the "wrong" note when these stupid scales are supposed to be so called "fool-proof".

My question is, how can I improve on bass without an actual teacher(The cost is outweighing the marginal benefit)? What should I practice everything and for how long(i need a set schedule)? How can i improve on improvisation?

You went to lessons for a year and a half and still don't know your diatonic modes? You either had a terrible teacher or you were a terrible student who didn't pay any attention to what you were being told. The simple answer is that you need to practice what you were taught.

[Jim Powers]

Originally Posted by mccartneyman

I have to vote for listening to records because, although I played trombone and could read music, I taught myself bass when I was 16 by simply listening to the Beatles, Stones and every other Brit invasion band .... today I can play just about anything after having heard it once, although I can read.

For me it was clarinet, drums, some piano, but I never read for bass. If I audition in a classic rock band, I find myself responding "just start" when they ask if I know something.
The newer stuff I need to listen to just like I did the classic stuff, but I learn faster these days, and I use CDs.

[petchimp123]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

You went to lessons for a year and a half and still don't know your diatonic modes? You either had a terrible teacher or you were a terrible student who didn't pay any attention to what you were being told. The simple answer is that you need to practice what you were taught.

Diatonic modes?? What the...?? I wasn't a terrible student and my teacher wasn't terrible either. He didn't teach me that much music theory besides the scales, but he taught me how to play in rhythm.

[Dave Muscato]

Hmm...

I agree; I cover modes in my 2nd or 3rd lesson, usually. First lesson = parts of the instrument, caring for your instrument, how to tune, what the knobs do, how to play open notes in rhythm, basic divisions of the beat, sight-reading open notes. Second lesson = proper left hand technique and playing while standing up, chromatic scales. Third lesson = diatonic major scale in two octaves, explanation of modes, and so on.

A mode is just a scale, but you can change what your "starting" note is. For example, the familiar C major scale is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (whole-step, whole-step, half-step, whole-step, whole-step, whole-step, half-step). This is also called Ionian (1st) mode. The second mode (Dorian) is simply the same notes, but starting & ending on the D instead of the C (still staying in the same key). For example, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D (whole-step, half-step, whole-step, whole-step, whole-step, half-step, whole-step). The third mode (Phrygian) is simply starting on the 3rd note, as in E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E, and so on. Scales and modes and inextricable entwined, and make great exercises as far as running up & down the neck to work on technique, speed, position shifting, etc.

[zeppelinfreak]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

The only way to get better at playing by ear is practice. Go to teoria.com and use their ear-training Flash exercises. Pop in a CD and spend an hour just playing along with each song straight through. Do this for a few weeks and your ears *will* improve.

The problem with the internet & tabs these days is that people don't take the time to develop their ears. People used to sit down with records and wear them out listening to them over & over, learning the parts. Now people just look them up. You are missing a vital part of the process by doing that. Tabs are helpful if you have to learn a song in a hurry but they are not a replacement for transcription.

Practice!

You sir have won the internet.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by petchimp123

Diatonic modes?? What the...?? I wasn't a terrible student and my teacher wasn't terrible either. He didn't teach me that much music theory besides the scales, but he taught me how to play in rhythm.

By that response I would say that one of you were doing less than the job you were supposed to. If you came to me for two weeks you would would at least know what the term diatonic modes means, after two years if my student was on talkbass asking what you are asking I would seriously question my abilities as a teacher. Sorry if that's harsh, but not knowing your diatonic modes after two years of paying a teacher is disgraceful.