How hard should I strike? (Clueless ex-guitar player)

Dablues · #1 01-31-2010, 10:10 PM

Hello all!
I have a dilemma: I'm new to playing bass. I'm a pretty accomplished guitar player, in that I don't sound totally like crap. I'm switching over to a better instrument now (bass) and I'm trying to figure out how hard to hit the strings with my right hand. With guitars, if they're well set-up, you can really bang on them and they don't really exhibit fret rattle, at least not too much. However, with both my Squier CV '50s Precision and my T-40 through my Acoustic B200, I'm noticing a lot of fret rattle around the 7th through 17th frets as I hit the E string harder. The strings are flatwound (roundwound for the T-40), medium gauge. I'm quite good at setups after years of practice, and have little relief and about 3mm from the 17th fret on the E string. I just notice that the sound is kind of like a distortion or overdrive through the amp when I hit hard in those aforementioned fret on the E-string (and a lot unplugged) but none if I simply brush with more finesse.
Basically, I have a few questions:
1. Is my set-up too low?
2. Am I just not used to bass and need more finesse than guitar?
The E-string is much louder than the rest anyway, so I don't need to hit that hard. I do tend to get carried away sometimes, though, and that's when the buzz/rattle/distortion happens.
Thanks for the help!

All_¥our_Bass · #2 01-31-2010, 10:39 PM

Whatever gets the tone you like.
Play lightly if you like that smoother sound.

I like clank and rattle so I SMASH mine into oblivion.

Dablues · #3 02-01-2010, 09:55 AM

Thanks for the help - I appreciate. So is it normal to have some buzz when you really dig in? Would you say that a lot of blues/classic rock players play gently? How about an analogy: is it like petting a cat or patting a horse? That is, is it a really gentle motion like brushing the strings, or is it a hard tap?

Billnc · #4 02-01-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dablues

Thanks for the help - I appreciate. So is it normal to have some buzz when you really dig in? Would you say that a lot of blues/classic rock players play gently? How about an analogy: is it like petting a cat or patting a horse? That is, is it a really gentle motion like brushing the strings, or is it a hard tap?

Try this, play softly and gradually build volume, after a certain point the bass will not get louder no matter how hard you hit it. There is no point to ever hit the bass harder than this, and that point is not overly aggressive. If you are ever going to learn to play with dynamics play in the middle of that point where there is no increase in volume and very softly. You want to be able to play fast passages quietly with a light touch (this takes practice) if need be.
No analogy needed.

bassteban · #5 02-01-2010, 10:13 AM

When I was young & couldn't afford good equipment, I tended to play harder in an attempt to get more volume from my stuff. Now that I have decent gear, I still have to fight the urge to bang it hard when I get enthused. It's a balance, & for me, hearing myself clearly is critical- if I hear my mistakes/sloppiness, I can correct it. As for your ideal dynamics, that will totally be your call. Hit it exactly hard enough to make yourself happy- then do it again.

Dablues · #6 02-01-2010, 10:44 AM

Thanks a bunch; this helps. I have noticed that I don't really get much louder on that problem E-string by digging in, so why play harder? You're right.

bassteban · #7 02-01-2010, 10:52 AM

Also(a bit off-topic)- though I prefer bass, I wouldn't call it *better* than guitar; different for sure. Is there a better/best color?

Dablues · #8 02-01-2010, 12:09 PM

I would call it better because I feel it is better. When I say better, I don't mean in an absolute, universal sense. I mean better for me. Also, I tend to be sarcastic. I'm a teacher. Sarcasm gets me through the day.

bassteban · #9 02-01-2010, 12:18 PM

I have- on occasion- detected a note of sarcasm here & there on TB...

Selta · #10 02-01-2010, 02:56 PM

It's just a matter of physics. In order for the bass string to produce the right note, even at our scale length, a lot of lateral movement is required. Strings don't oscillate in a perfectly flat line, either. Hence, you'll need a higher action than you're probably used to on guitar, or just not dig in as much.
Personally, I don't get the "action-basically-on-the-fretboard" model that a lot of people shoot for. I like a medium-low action myself. Gives me room to dig in when I want, and it is not so high that it's at all difficult to play...

Dablues · #11 02-01-2010, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the help, folks. You're right - as a physics teacher, I should know better. I really prefer playing softly, anyway, it's just hard to get used to after being a very aggressive guitar player.

stflbn · #12 02-01-2010, 03:29 PM

In my opinion, attack on the strings should be varied for specific tonal and technique differences and subtle dynamic differences. If you want more volume... use the amp.

ptolemny · #13 02-01-2010, 03:37 PM

Since yr a guitar player, I assume you use a pick (if you do, it is a good idea to develop yr finger technique for the sake of versatility, plus some stuff is alot more fun to play with yr fingers). If you don't like the "distorted" tone you get when you hit the strings hard, just ease up a little. As you said, its easy to get carried away, so you have be very deliberate in your picking technique and, like all techniques, takes some practice to perfect. If you want to wail without gettin' grit, you'll have to raise the action.

Dablues · #14 02-01-2010, 06:05 PM

I've actually been using my fingers lately, as I like the fat tone better. I'm more of a Stax/Motown kind of guy, so...

camiloochoa · #15 02-01-2010, 06:16 PM

my advise would be to play very light

i suggest that you take a look of these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md8FCeqNrcM

Sakuraba · #16 02-01-2010, 06:28 PM

My advice would be that you should play as light as you can. Literally.

Dablues · #17 02-01-2010, 07:16 PM

Thanks, guys! I must not be crazy for playing softly - thought I was.

Flongoid · #18 02-02-2010, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakuraba

My advice would be that you should play as light as you can. Literally.

I agree. It's a lot easier to start playing harder than it is to start playing lighter.

oldrocker · #19 02-02-2010, 05:51 AM

It's possible you may may want to raise you strings up a bit.

It's not uncommon for a high fret or 2 to cause some unwanted fret buzz. You probably want to avoid clank and fret buzz if your going for a fat tone.

Col E Loc · #20 02-06-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dablues

2. Am I just not used to bass and need more finesse than guitar?
The E-string is much louder than the rest anyway, so I don't need to hit that hard. I do tend to get carried away sometimes, though, and that's when the buzz/rattle/distortion happens.
Thanks for the help!

I've talked a lot with my guitarist, and i have come to realize that with [i]our[i] instrument, the player is the more important part of the tone. there are plenty of variations a bass player can make in his tone that guitar can not (someone will catch me on that) - Variations less obviously effected in the higher register. these are all the Right Rhythm Hand gradients I can think of:

Playing at the 3rd and 4th harmonic (bridge side) Vs. Playing elsewhere on the string (thumb resting on a pickup). it's my understanding that guitars are more like a sliding scale: close to the bridge=piercing shreek that bass players hate. While, Playing above the 24th fret (4th Harmonic) gives a more loose tone. the bass has very distinct sweet spots.

Attack (in the language i use to play a line, attacking sweeps the finger through the string) Vs. Strike (you can think of it like slapping, or a hammer). Where Guitar sticks a chord into one bar of music, the bass rests and attacks where the punch is needed.

What i've been noticing a lot recently (referring to the E string comment), is players using the E string for whatever the root of the key is, then embellishing the chord on the other strings, but pounding the one (one as in root, not the down beat, but usually falls on the one) on the E.

Welcome to the greatest instrument in the world.