How to open up and start playin freely

[vlado]

This post was used in a different thread, but I'm curious to get some new answers, if possible, so I'll just copy my post to start a new thread.
My problem is that I cannot let myself go and play freely. I guess it's a psychological issue, whenever I play with someone and we tend to improvise I keep a lot of reserve from my side and always have a tendency to organize the stuff we're playing in certain circular thing, a groove, in other words to "put it in a folder", where I feel secure. It's a very difficult thing for me 'cause my band is trying hard to break out of rules and standard use of each instrument and the other two guys have embraced this freedom much faster and much more then myself and I have a hard time because I feel I'm not giving them enough. If it were a technical issue I'm sure I'd be able to overcome that by practicing hard enough, but I think there's much more to it then just being able to play licks. My band mates and I are all getting pretty impatient and if someone has any kind of similar experience and can help with an advice please do. I've even thought of starting to practice yoga or something like that to finaly let myself go.
The music we're trying to produce is based on different fields and experiences we've each been through like jazz, classical music, rock and ethnical music from all around the world, so it's very important for me to start playing much more then just "groove" to be able to contribute to our band. We started playing together two-three years ago and we had some ideas before we got together that we've explored and developed to the level of finished tunes. Now that we are trying to make a new kind of material we are trying to improvise much more then before and, though I know I can play my instrument well I just don't know how to play it in this particular manner of free improvisation without getting in a circle, like a dog chasing his tail.

[Mayers]

You will have to listen very carefully to what is going on ... and start playing what you hear in your head ( a riff, groove, no matter what). Or you can come with something, let them play on it for a while then do some variance, or change it completely... of course at a good time. So the key in improvising is to listen.

I really love improvising, more than learning an actual song. I groove too, very easy to me to put out a funky groove. It is harder to improvise but I juste groove something else depending of what my guitar player play.

I think you should listen to some prog. That kind of music always shift in something else... it is progression. It may help you enter in that kind of mood where everything change.

[Mayers]

I forgot to add. I recorded every jam... so I could listen to them afterward and listen to what works what doesn't.

[shadow_FIX]

Recording your jam sessions like suggested above isn't a bad idea. I know exactly what you're talking about with the playing freely part though...every player goes through this. What it came down to for me was mostly individual practice and experience in live situations.

Through individual practice (focused, productive practice) you can work out grooves for different styles, etc., as well as just know where all the notes are on the fingerboard. Know where all of your scales, arpeggios, etc. fit in in all keys. Once you can play all the scales in all keys, make patterns out of the scales in different intervals, like 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, and so on. It sounds like a pain in the rear, but it's worth it. Once you feel really comfortable with where everything is you essentially have a larger "palate" of notes to choose from.

The second part of what I said just flat out comes with time. There is no replacement for live playing experience. Someone who may be a fantastic studio musician might have problems on a live gig, or vise versa. Doing what I said in the first paragraph will make you more confident overall to begin with, so that helps. But bottom line is the more gigs you play the more comfortable you will get.

[251]

Originally Posted by vlado

This post was used in a different thread, but I'm curious to get some new answers, if possible, so I'll just copy my post to start a new thread.
My problem is that I cannot let myself go and play freely. I guess it's a psychological issue, whenever I play with someone and we tend to improvise I keep a lot of reserve from my side and always have a tendency to organize the stuff we're playing in certain circular thing, a groove, in other words to "put it in a folder", where I feel secure. It's a very difficult thing for me 'cause my band is trying hard to break out of rules and standard use of each instrument and the other two guys have embraced this freedom much faster and much more then myself and I have a hard time because I feel I'm not giving them enough. If it were a technical issue I'm sure I'd be able to overcome that by practicing hard enough, but I think there's much more to it then just being able to play licks. My band mates and I are all getting pretty impatient and if someone has any kind of similar experience and can help with an advice please do. I've even thought of starting to practice yoga or something like that to finaly let myself go.
The music we're trying to produce is based on different fields and experiences we've each been through like jazz, classical music, rock and ethnical music from all around the world, so it's very important for me to start playing much more then just "groove" to be able to contribute to our band. We started playing together two-three years ago and we had some ideas before we got together that we've explored and developed to the level of finished tunes. Now that we are trying to make a new kind of material we are trying to improvise much more then before and, though I know I can play my instrument well I just don't know how to play it in this particular manner of free improvisation without getting in a circle, like a dog chasing his tail.

It sounds like you spend time preparing for these sessions. My preparation to improvise gives me some fall back patterns to use while I come up with another idea (for example, BeBop licks) & the muscle memory to find intervals & change positions with relative ease.

I spent some time trying to improvise as if I were playing an instrument different from a bass. It turned out to be Benny Goodman's Clarinet I was hearing & I decided I was never going to be able to play that way. Thanks to my Father, Benny Goodman's music was the 1st to really catch my ear when I was young. For me, switching from bass to some other kind of phrasing for a solo is not going to be easy. Ultimately, I decided to solo like a bass player. Are you also preparing to solo on the bass? You can do things on the bass that your band mates cannot do on their instruments. See if you can find those things & bring them to your sessions. I guaranty it is easier than playing a guitar or keyboard solo on your 4 string.

I found, playing for audiences & getting compliments on my playing, gave me a better idea of what others hear. Especially when I thought my playing was very bad & the audience did not.

I trust your judgement, you're holding back. Cut it out. In the end you have to let the music come out. You have to accept what you have just played. If you heard it, it is history! If you are busy with regret, you are listening, not playing. "Be here now!" when playing music. You can't change the past, you don't know the future, just which chord comes next. Focus on Now.

Let me try to show you what Now is .... Do you need to see it again? ... It was that moment it took to get to the next word. That's the best I can do with a keyboard. I apologize if that seemed rude.

You can go back to controlling your life when the tune is over. It will take some time before you can control the music. The great thing about playing music is, you can't hurt anyone with your errors. No one will get sick or die from your music. Relax, let go & Be the music. Let the music flow. Let the audience judge you. Take what you get home with you.

FWIW, avoid audiences full of musicians, when you can. 8-)

[dan stanton]

I always recommend playing by yourself. Whatever pops into your head. Let your mind wander. Have your noodling time, along with practice. Unless you are playing free-form, there will always be a structure to any song. Sometimes guitards forget you're playing bass. Have them play rythmn for 3 minutes at a time, and you play lead. (Like that'll ever happen.)But as always, have fun!

[shadow_FIX]

^Nice post!

As a musician, I can hear when other musicians are thinking too much. They might play all the right notes in their solo at the right time, but you can tell when they are thinking too much. This also happens to jazz musicians that keep their face in the book and read the whole time.

[kesslari]

You can be more free in your playing if you're willing to risk sounding bad.
As long as you are concerned with "sounding good" and "playing well" part of you will be holding back and being critical.
Ironically, being willing to sound bad is often the first step toward playing really, really well.

[camiloochoa]

Originally Posted by kesslari

You can be more free in your playing if you're willing to risk sounding bad.
As long as you are concerned with "sounding good" and "playing well" part of you will be holding back and being critical.
Ironically, being willing to sound bad is often the first step toward playing really, really well.

My suggestion will be to read this book called "Effortless Mastery:Liberating the Master Musician Within" by Kenny Werner.

[shadow_FIX]

I think I've heard of that book. Is that the one that says something about how it takes something like 10,000 hours to master something? If so then I know what you're talking about

[JimmyM]

learn some jazz. get a jazz teacher and learn it and some music theory. learn your chords and try to incorporate the notes of the chords in your lines. absorb yourself in music by acts your bandmates like. start stealing their parts that you like and trying them in your music. practice every day for as long as you can. stay off the internet. less porn, more practice.

[bassballs_dk]

How about the book "The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten, this book has really helped me playing more freely.

[crusie]

now that we are with wooten, let me quote him.

"half the times I play I just play off the rack. there's only 12 notes 7 of these goes into the scale - so actually there's a 7 out of 12 chance you get the note right" that's quite good odds

just let go man - let the music guide you and don't be afraid to make mistakes. if the music is groove oriented - use the one as your step into groove heaven - build the groove up from the one. if you do this and have close contact with the drummer - you really shouldn't need to worry a whole lot. after all if the music is groove based the guitards have to follow you . I have a quite funny storry about this in a live situation. we have this one track where we have a part to improvise - usually me and the drummer goes all out here. last time we played it we/I actually changed the key of what we were playing - the guitar failed to follow so he started it solo after the improv part in the wrong key. haaha immagine the look at his face . to make sure we kept the train from wreaking me and the drummer went back in the improv part changed the key back and let the guitarist have his solo in the right key. no-one between the audience ever caught on to the mistake but it sure made the guitarist focus a lot more in the improv part :d

[vlado]

Thanks a lot for the advices, I'll try to keep all that in mind and I'll definitely be looking for the books you mentioned. I guess the switch from rock, punk, reggae, jazzy pop or whatever that has a standard structure of theme-chorus-solo-bridge-theme or similar, that I've been playing for 20 years or so, towards something very different (to mention just a few names I'll say Tortoise, EST, or even Stravinsky), is a big step for me and I have to grow into it.

[251]

+1

[Rick Nicak]

Taking some more advice from Wooten, play along with cd's. I am guessing your band mates are not practicing with you every night, so tha frees you to play with others like Miles Davis, Chopin, really whoever you want. I learned to play bass by listening to the radio and playing along, makes your ear strong and teaches you to anticipate.

[randyripoff]

Originally Posted by Rick Nicak

Taking some more advice from Wooten, play along with cd's. I am guessing your band mates are not practicing with you every night, so tha frees you to play with others like Miles Davis, Chopin, really whoever you want. I learned to play bass by listening to the radio and playing along, makes your ear strong and teaches you to anticipate.

+1

[heavyfunkmachin]

im working in the same area... 2 things help me:

- Ninjam/reaper (search "amazing low latency jam online here in talkbass)

-thinking a melody/line/whatever and THEN playing it, istead of thinking while playing... you head can cover a wider range than your muscle memmory

[UncleFluffy]

Have you tried singing along (not words, just whatever noises work for you) with the recordings of your band? (In private, of course...)

[greenboy]

What was it Frank Herbert wrote in DUNE? "Fear is the Mind Killer". Or something like that. Got to abandon self, not be afraid to "make mistakes". Fail sometimes. Fail at relying on habits and mental safety rails.