How to play when drumless?

[Zerozeddy]

Without going into the ins and outs of why, the band finds itself without a drummist and intends to keep it that way. As a consequence, we now lean towards an acoustic set with 2x acoustic guitars but accepting that bass still might as well be electric.

Obviously I find myself playing the old bass lines which were tightly integrated into the kick drum and the rest, and currently we sound like a band missing a drummist (no really) - and my contribution is therefore woolly, vague, silly and messy. I need to adjust what I'm doing to make it the songs sound like they were written deliberately drumless.

I need strategies. Follow closely the rhythm guitar as if I was an extra string? Just play first note of bar and get absorbed into overall sound?

[Note: only band I've heard do that well is Yonder Mountain String Band, but perhaps the format only works well with bluegrass. We are guitary pop a la Stereophonics. Could really do with examples of drumless bands/songs that are great.]

[deckard]

This is from way out in left field, mate, and I don't if it will be helpful but I suggest listening to some music that is drumless to hear how others do it.

Some examples:

Michael Manring w. acoustic guitarist David Cullen on the excellent CD "Equilibre";

Eddie Gomez w. Bill Evans on the CDs "Montreaux III" and "Intuition";

Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen w. Joe Pass on the CDs "Chops" and "Northsea Nights".

There are others, too - I think Jack Casady and Jorma Kaukonen did an acoustic Hot Tuna album at one point...

Maybe others on TB can make some suggestions.

I've played in numerous drumless situations over the years, am quite comfortable with it, but also find it a "mixed blessing" of sorts:

very freeing in many ways, but it also means that EVERYONE involved needs to definitely pay attention to groove/time/meter at all times, including whoever (whomever?) is soloing at any one time... and ESP. when I'M soloing!



JMHO

[Lichtaffen]

Larry Graham of Sly and the Family Stone invented the slap/pop technique we all use today because a gospel band he was in as a youth did not have a drummer. He basically created a new technique based on necessity.

Maybe you should really think "out of the box" (as we Americans say) and come up with a way of making it interesting rather than playing the same lines you had with a drummer.

[MarkTAW]

I posted on this topic no more than 3 days ago - check the archives in Technique or General Instruction.

[groooooove]

Originally Posted by deckard

Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen w. Joe Pass on the CDs "Chops" and "Northsea Nights".

bingo.

hot tuna is pretty sick too

[klyph]

I need to adjust what I'm doing to make it the songs sound like they were written deliberately drumless.

Well, yes you do, but so do the other guys. Are they still playing the same parts/ the same way as they did with the drummer? That's gonna make it harder for you to "think out of the box". You ALL need to rebuild the sound from the ground up. Listen to those music suggestions TOGETHER!

You're embarking on a journey which has the potential to make you a MUCH better player- playing w/o a drummer can really inform the playing you subsequently do WITH a drummer. Play with confidence, and don't be afraid to keep it simple, or play melodies- whatever the song calls for. The endless streams of "rock" eighth notes or "funk" sixteenths will be alot less useful- you are now free to "mix it up" (and you had better!)- no need to rely on the drummer to lend contrast to different parts of the song. That is now your job. I think you may find yourself tapping your foot much more, you can't rely on the constant motion of your fingers ( or the hi-hats) to keep time while you "mix it up". You can now play much lighter and hear more of your bass tone! How cool is that? It's fun, but daunting! It's all you!

The suggestions for listening have been excellent- Hot Tuna is a great place to start, especially since your playing rock/pop, I assume, and not jazz. The Nat King Cole Trio is another great drumless act to try and emulate (well... as much as you can!). They could REALLY swing! Even without Cozy Cole or Jo Jones! The other thing I would suggest is dive deeper into McCartney. His lines are very melodic/yet supportive, and from my experience seem to work really well without drums- even when the tune being played originally had them.

Have fun with it! People notice that! Maybe even more than the lack of a drummer!

[Zerozeddy]

Thanks chaps, will get on the case...

[lunarpollen]

If one of your acoustic guitarists sticks to strong rhythm and is at a good level in the overall mix, you should be able to get by.

[ga_edwards]

What about one of those acoustic 'stompboxes'. One of those wooden boxes with a mic inside that you literally stomp on to create kick drum type sound. That might make up for the lack of kick drum to lock into without going full drums.

[Crazyeelboy]

Zerozeddy:

We do "unplugged" (although I use an amp) fairy often and you do have to change the way you play a bit. I try to approach each song like a percussionist who happens to also play notes. This is a lot of fun and it has improved my playing in general - even when playing with a drummer. It is a bit of a challenge but it can be a really good thing.

[killersdude]

Have you tried any muting techniques to give the bass a little more thump? I like to emulate the attack of a kick drum when I'm playing low with no rhythmic accompaniment.

[JimmyM]

Add a lot of effects. And a drum machine.

[not_jason]

One of my favorite bands, The Mountain Goats, has frequently toured as just acoustic guitar and electric bass. When I saw them play a few years ago for the first time, and saw how effectively they worked with their set up, it blew my mind. Here is probably their closest thing to a "hit" song, played live with no drums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rZfQzWwyLw

My usual approach, when working with an acoustic guitar, a bass, and no drums, is to invert the usual order of things slightly. I think acoustic guitar has a lot more and better percussive qualities than a bass generally has. If you can get a guitar player to really saw on it and hit the mutes hard, you can drive a lot of the rhythm with that alone. And once you've got the rhythm covered by that, and since that sort of guitar approach doesn't lend itself to very melodic playing, the bass is free to do a lot of the "lead" style stuff that you might normally assign to a guitar. Since you're going to be more audible in the mix than you would be when competing against a drummer and a few electrics, you'll be far more effective than normal in that context.

In other words, I'm telling you to do exactly what those guys were doing in that video I linked.

[wetzelman1]

listen analytically to hip hop and how the bass is used there. Also some trip hop stuff like air, massive attack, zero7 do some really interesting bass stuff. Other than that, you can treat the bass like a lead or rythm section. Without drums I'd tend to go with the "less is more" attitude.

[manoverboard_21]

I'm sure there's more experienced players here with much better advice, but I usually mimic the kick drum when my drummer is absent. Me and my drummer usually play in sync so I know exactly what his right foot is doing on most of our songs. I find the need to mimic it so that there's a steady time signature being heard for the others musicians that can't keep time.

[Mayers]

I played more in band without any drummer than with a drummer so when I play with a drummer I don't even listen to what he does.

The key for me is to have good time. Listen to your band recording with a metronome, listen very carfully. Then practice with your metronome without any backing, you have to feel the beat in you.

It may be easier if your other band member also have good time.

[bassmasta117]

flight of the concords is an example have no drummer, if that counts

[varunkapahi]

play slap bass

[Interceptor]

I'm playing in two bands without drummers, and have been in one of them for close to seven years. One is a acoustic rock (with an incredible female lead) the other is jazz - trumpet, guitar and bass.

I play very simple parts when ever there is vocal action. I do classic leading tone pick-up eighth note chord change leads and walk whenever the song gives me some room. Timing is key. I do a fair amount of little timing games; pulling and pushing time.

The tone required is a beast to find; percussive, deep and still expressive. I ended up going fretless to get it. Interestingly, you can use a way bigger bottom without a drummer than with one.

[seanm]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Interestingly, you can use a way bigger bottom without a drummer than with one.

Without the kick drum taking all the low frequencies you are free to use them