How the world do i keep my fretting wrist straight?

[cire113]

I just dont understand how i can possibly keep my fretting wrist straight? it seems impossible... anyone please?

No matter how i try it.. its always bent.. I have smaller hands... but i use a really thin small nick ibanez sr 300..

[bassteban]

What do you mean by 'straight?' Pics might help- that said, if it sounds good & doesn't hurt, what is the issue?

[anonymous122511]

Go take a lesson with a good bass player and all your questions will be answered. Any specific advice you get about your technique here will be given without having seen you play and will probably be anywhere from useless to horrible. Needs to be dealt with in person.

[Dellers]

If you have small hands and fingers it's impossible to keep the wrist straight. I have very small hands, and on top of that my pinkies are extremely short compared to the other fingers. Therefore, to play octaves or riffs on the lower strings (especially on my 5 string bass) I have no way of keeping my wrist straight. And yes, unlike what many people say, it's possible to have too small hands to play a 6 or 7 string bass. I can't play riffs on them at all, unless I hold the bass like a double bass.

[kr0n]

Short answer, you can't. As straight as possible should be taught.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by kr0n

Short answer, you can't. As straight as possible should be taught.

Why?

[Coeball]

YouTube - Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar

Check this out.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by kr0n

Short answer, you can't. As straight as possible should be taught.

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

Why?

Due to the way the human body works, any angle in joints produces un-needed pressure, wear and tear. In effect you weaken the wrist and all the associated body functions that support it.

In short we are not designed to play bass, the movement and stresses of it are not natural to us. We can cope with it, but not everyone can, but in coping with it there has to be a trade off against injury or disease. A straight wrist in any function the body does is considered a safe position, but there can be different degrees of straight depending on many factors, so as said try for as straight as you can manage, not what you see others do.

The fingers are controlled from the brain, the main muscles that move the fingers are in the forearms, all this has to travel through the wrist and hand. Considerening the anatomy of the wrist and hand the best and safest way for these functions to work is when the wrist is straight, this is the point of least resistance if you will, so the point of least damage and maximum efficiency.

[Jazz Ad]

The safest way to play bass would be lap style.
While we're on the topic or ergonomics, it is very bad to rest your right forearm on the side of the bass. It compresses working tendons and leads to carpal tunnel syndrome.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

The safest way to play bass would be lap style.
While we're on the topic or ergonomics, it is very bad to rest your right forearm on the side of the bass. It compresses working tendons and leads to carpal tunnel syndrome.

Sorry but not strictly true on the development of CTS, there are many reasons why CTS happens, resting the forearm on the bass is not seen as one of them.
Resting the arm on the bass may lead to other minor problems that may or may not develop further, but that depends on the regularity and length of the playing. Again the word may comes in to use.

Smoking cigerettes does not lead to cancer, it is long time regular use that will do the damage over many years for the majority of smokers. But you will feel many other related problems before the long term effects of cancer show themselves.
In the same way a smoker can justify the habit to themselves in light of the health problems it presents, so can musicians in their technique and playing.

Musicians can justify aches pains and potential long term injuries to themselves because the effects are gradual not instant. CTS cannot be avoided as such but measures can be taken to reduce its effect and impact on the body.
The longer we live the more time there is for any condition to develop.
Hip replacement operation are common for no other reason other than the hip joint has worn out through natural wear and tear for the intended length of time we live for. The fact we live longer through better health, and lifestyles does not mean human development will be in the same time frame. Evolution is a slow process but the pace of human life and aspirations has superceeded uses of the human body that were not even thought of as possible when the first electric basses came on the market 60 years ago.

There are certain recognised techniques that are desirable to help a bass player in their quest to play, but as i always say, not everyone is cut out to play bass. Because we live in a society that like to think that everyone has the same chances in life, the reality is that some will succeed with ease where others will fail dispite the hard work...the same applies to bass playing.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Due to the way the human body works, any angle in joints produces un-needed pressure, wear and tear. In effect you weaken the wrist and all the associated body functions that support it.

Putting the idea in a beginner's mind that he should hold his wrist "as straight as possible" is wrong. The wrist will bend as you play up and down and across the instrument and fighting that will cause enormous problems reflected in the elbow, shoulder and even the hips. Something no one has talked about is instrument height (although Dellers raises an interesting point about the superior mechanical efficiency of the upright bass). If the instrument is too low the wrist will bend more than it should and problems will arise. You need a teacher to help get you in the ballpark of how much bend is acceptable....because unless you have the bass at the perfect height and only play in one position on one string your wrist will always bend some.

[THORRR]

Make sure you keep your elbow tucked in to your body for starters. That puts your hand in the natural playing position.
Don't be concerned with your wrist. It will automatically be in the "right" place.

Now look at where your hand is in mid air when you tuck in your elbow to your side.

Adjust your guitar strap so the neck of the bass falls right into where your hand is in this natural position.

Now play. How does it feel?
This is your starting position. Now you can adjust it from there - higher - lower -etc, etc. to suit yourself.

[buddyro57]

I agree with Jeff Ardunn, that only a qualified teacher can really help you with this. But- to address your post; A more important ideal than keeping the left wrist "straight" (sorry krOn) might be to try to have the left wrist more-or-less perpendicular to the neck,and try to keep the hand arched so that the pads of the fingers meet the string. Of course, some allowance must be made for individual physical stature etc. Naturally, its easier to achieve a perpendicular approach when you are at the 5th fret as opposed to the 1st fret.

Notice that the left hands of cellists, and classical guitarists, closely resemble the the ideal that we strive for. Also, one notices that in each case the left hand looks natural and relaxed when addressing the neck. I think this is what we are after.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

Putting the idea in a beginner's mind that he should hold his wrist "as straight as possible" is wrong. The wrist will bend as you play up and down and across the instrument and fighting that will cause enormous problems reflected in the elbow, shoulder and even the hips. Something no one has talked about is instrument height (although Dellers raises an interesting point about the superior mechanical efficiency of the upright bass). If the instrument is too low the wrist will bend more than it should and problems will arise. You need a teacher to help get you in the ballpark of how much bend is acceptable....because unless you have the bass at the perfect height and only play in one position on one string your wrist will always bend some.

Of course it moves, but if you understand the way the human body and mind works by trying to keep it staight will result in the best desired effect. Rather than planting the idea that the wrist is to be always straight it give the idea that it should not be bent. It is easy to see how bent a wrist can be, rather than trying to keep it straight, no one looks at a straightish wrist and try and make it straighter, but you will notice a bent one and reduce the bend.

You also make the assumption that every player wants the same from their playing, for some players the image of their music is as important as the music and the playing. That means the apperance of the bass and its height come into play, to low and the fretting hand suffers, to high and the plucking hand suffers, so there is a trade of against which hand/wrist gets the benefit.
Unfortunately a lot of music teacher or instructors are not qualified to comment on a bass players physical needs, they can only comment on what is desired for playing, oe what they were taught as to be correct, not what any individual player is capable of, that is now and in the future of their playing.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Of course it moves, but if you understand the way the human body and mind works by trying to keep it staight will result in the best desired effect. Rather than planting the idea that the wrist is to be always straight it give the idea that it should not be bent. It is easy to see how bent a wrist can be, rather than trying to keep it straight, now one looks at a straightish wrist and try and make it straighter, but you will notice a bent one and reduce the bend.

And you're making the huge assumption the OP understands this. What's obvious to you and me probably isn't to him.

You also make the assumption that every player wants the same from their playing, for some players the image of their music is as important as the music and the playing. That means the apperance of the bass and its height come into play, to low and the fretting hand suffers, to high and the plucking hand suffers, so there is a trade of against which hand/wrist gets the benefit.
Unfortunately a lot of music teacher or instructors are not qualified to comment on a bass players physical needs, they can only comment on what is desired for playing, oe what they were taught as to be correct, not what any individual player is capable of, that is now and in the future of their playing.

You're right I don't give a rat's ass about how the height of the bass looks. Since the OP didn't mention it I'm going strictly on functionality. Appearance is a complete and utter non-issue thus far; very much a red herring.

You're right a lot of teachers are clueless about all sorts of things including bio-mechanics. Are you suggesting the OP not take lessons based on this? Some asking around will find you a good teacher. I could recommend several in my city.

[Cristo]

One thing you can try:

Instead of trying to keep your wrist straight when you play, first try to straighten your wrist, moving the bass as you do so. Then try to play from those positions.

You may find you need the bass higher or lower. You can raise or lower the headstock vertical/horizontal. You can bring the neck around towards the front of your body so that the body of the bass is more on your side than your front.

In short, try to maneuver the bass into a position where your fretting wrist is staight(er). Then see if you can play from there. It will never be perfectly straight.

You can also get one of those rigid wrist braces. I discovered once after an injury (non-bass related) that I could play with one on, and my wrist was held straight by the brace.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

And you're making the huge assumption the OP understands this. What's obvious to you and me probably isn't to him.



You're right I don't give a rat's ass about how the height of the bass looks. Since the OP didn't mention it I'm going strictly on functionality. Appearance is a complete and utter non-issue thus far; very much a red herring.

You're right a lot of teachers are clueless about all sorts of things including bio-mechanics. Are you suggesting the OP not take lessons based on this? Some asking around will find you a good teacher. I could recommend several in my city.

Jeff the OP, or any player for that matters does not need to understand anything about the mechanics other than the straighter the wrist the better, it is a simple idea that is taken on. If some one says the straighter the better then the concept is simple to get, the assumtion is in the statement.

Yes i agree on functionality, but these threads get read by many for different reasons, so we really have to be carefull about how we express ideas, all i done was gave you the other side of what a player may look for. Its just a reminder to say that nothing is written in stone to others dropping in on the thread.

I am not suggesting any player does not take lessons, just be aware that with all the advice about taking lessons out there, new players are not qualified to determine what is a good lesson or a bad lesson, and what is a good idea on technique or a bad one.
If players actually saw the injuries that long term playing by orchestral players that they suffer as a result of being taught the correct techniques and postures by qualified teachers and instructors, that are taught around the world, then they would understanding more about what they are getting into.

In the end what works for one does not always work for another, and even more so now because the teachings are being fractured by those that have no right to be teaching and those that have no right to try and play a bass in the first place.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Jeff the OP, or any player for that matters does not need to understand anything about the mechanics other than the straighter the wrist the better, it is a simple idea that is taken on. If some one says the straighter the better then the concept is simple to get, the assumtion is in the statement.

Fergie, the "straighter the better" taken at face value with no regard for elbow, shoulder and hip position is wrong. You absolutely cannot assume when you tell a player you don't know and have never seen that he will understand the thresholds of compromise necessary. Adult players often do in fact need to understand the mechanics. They tend to over think things and need to be thinking about the right things....which will vary vastly from player to player. The OP needs one in person lesson with a good teacher.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

Fergie, the "straighter the better" taken at face value with no regard for elbow, shoulder and hip position is wrong. You absolutely cannot assume when you tell a player you don't know and have never seen that he will understand the thresholds of compromise necessary. Adult players often do in fact need to understand the mechanics. They tend to over think things and need to be thinking about the right things....which will vary vastly from player to player. The OP needs one in person lesson with a good teacher.

Jeff, agreed that personal lessons on a one to one.
Yes i do asumme that a player i have never meet or seen who is posting on a board to people he has never heard of or seen understands the ideas have to be put in a simple way and are open to a certain ammount of assumption and interpretation....or it is pointless posting in the first place looking for info.

The things you list as in wrist elbow shoulder etc are not of any issue to a new player, playing is the issue and to achieve it fast.
I defy any player to keep a straight wrist ( or as i call it a flat wrist) and not have it position the elbow in the correct position. The elbows position is a direct influence to wrist angle, this then will influence the shoulder and then any posture when standing.
The point is that posture and position comes from the bass back to the spinal column ( the body ) as a reaction to the instrument. We should not attempt to make the bass fit any posture or pre concieved idea of it.
As i said keep it simple and trust that by keeping the wrists a flat as you can the rest will fall in place...it is a simple concept in body mechanics to make, it will pay off in the long run for any player.

Once a certain degree of competence has been reached then techniques can be defined as can education and ideas. I am not one for telling any one thing to any one person, rather i'm one for letting people discover what works for them then see if it can be improved or tweaked to suit what they want.