I can't relax my hands when I play!

[Evil Undead]

Argh!

Been having trouble with this for a while now. I can't relax my hands when I play.

My fretting hand is the main problem, I seem to just tense up as soon as I fret a note, and grip the neck real hard.

It gets even worse when I try to practice slapping and popping, I think because then I'm trying to concentrate on my right hand and then the left does what it wants again!

GAH! Anyone have any tips or exercises to stop me doing this? It's driving me barmy

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

Argh!

Been having trouble with this for a while now. I can't relax my hands when I play.

My fretting hand is the main problem, I seem to just tense up as soon as I fret a note, and grip the neck real hard.

It gets even worse when I try to practice slapping and popping, I think because then I'm trying to concentrate on my right hand and then the left does what it wants again!

GAH! Anyone have any tips or exercises to stop me doing this? It's driving me barmy

Hi i think we've been here before in a way concerning playing faster LOL.
Try this for me and tell me how you got on.

At the 9th fret area play some lines across the strings without using your thumb on the back of the neck. If it mean altering your hand position to do this then please do so. Do not use the thumb so support the action of the hand, just use the fingers.

When you play keep the thumb off the back of the neck, play until the hand tires then stop.

so;
1/ where did the hand tire..in the palm or in the fingers?
2/did you tire anywhere else?
3/did you experience a burning sensation in the forearm?
4/ how did these feeling differ from what you normally experience?
5/if you have a day job what is it?

You have to be honest with your answers and i may be able to shed some light on what you do.

[animal52]

This seems like a good place to share an experience I had over the weekend. I've had the same problem... always played with a kung-fu grip on the neck, and really dug in with my plucking hand. For years I've played this way and it always bugged me that I couldn't break the habit. Over the weekend, I tried out a birdsong bass, and Whoa! what a difference! In five minutes I was player looser and faster than in five years of playing fenders, warwicks, musicman's, ibanez, etc. I'm not affiliated with Birdsong in any way (although they're fantastic instruments)... just saying that maybe you should try alot of basses until you find that one that fits you.

[ODDBALL]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Hi i think we've been here before in a way concerning playing faster LOL.
Try this for me and tell me how you got on.

At the 9th fret area play some lines across the strings without using your thumb on the back of the neck. If it mean altering your hand position to do this then please do so. Do not use the thumb so support the action of the hand, just use the fingers.

When you play keep the thumb off the back of the neck, play until the hand tires then stop.

so;
1/ where did the hand tire..in the palm or in the fingers?
2/did you tire anywhere else?
3/did you experience a burning sensation in the forearm?
4/ how did these feeling differ from what you normally experience?
5/if you have a day job what is it?

You have to be honest with your answers and i may be able to shed some light on what you do.

Hello Fergie,

On steps 1-5 what are the correct ways to Fret?

Thanks
Shaun

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Hi i think we've been here before in a way concerning playing faster LOL.
Try this for me and tell me how you got on.

At the 9th fret area play some lines across the strings without using your thumb on the back of the neck. If it mean altering your hand position to do this then please do so. Do not use the thumb so support the action of the hand, just use the fingers.

When you play keep the thumb off the back of the neck, play until the hand tires then stop.

so;
1/ where did the hand tire..in the palm or in the fingers?
2/did you tire anywhere else?
3/did you experience a burning sensation in the forearm?
4/ how did these feeling differ from what you normally experience?
5/if you have a day job what is it?

You have to be honest with your answers and i may be able to shed some light on what you do.

I hope you`re not suggesting he plays without proper technique

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by ODDBALL

Hello Fergie,

On steps 1-5 what are the correct ways to Fret?

Thanks
Shaun

Hi Shaun, i don't understand the question.
If steps 1-5 relate to the 5 points i wish answers on then i cannot say till i have the info i am looking for.

The correct way to fret is the way that gives you the results you wish every time and pain free.

There is no one correct way to fret. This is part of the problem players forcing themselves to try and play with a style that is not natural to them.

All players have elements in the playing that are desirable but in different ways. What say Stanley Clarke or Jeff Berlin find desirable in their techniques, Cliff Williams or Neil Murray may not. and visa versa. Parts of Stanley Clarkes technique would be dangerous to a player without Clarke skills.

If any player has problems in playing then the technique is one of the things that need to be looked at..is there a better one to be used? or as has been said, it the instrument the problem and the technique you want to use is not suitable for that instrument?

Technique is the physical characteristics you employ to achieve the result you want. Within this brief there are good points and bad points but that is personal to the person and the technique they are using.

[Evil Undead]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Hi i think we've been here before in a way concerning playing faster LOL.
Try this for me and tell me how you got on.

At the 9th fret area play some lines across the strings without using your thumb on the back of the neck. If it mean altering your hand position to do this then please do so. Do not use the thumb so support the action of the hand, just use the fingers.

When you play keep the thumb off the back of the neck, play until the hand tires then stop.

so;
1/ where did the hand tire..in the palm or in the fingers?
2/did you tire anywhere else?
3/did you experience a burning sensation in the forearm?
4/ how did these feeling differ from what you normally experience?
5/if you have a day job what is it?

You have to be honest with your answers and i may be able to shed some light on what you do.

Hello

We have but I realised it's also a problem when I play slowly after I slowed my playing down

Here are my answers

1/ in the fingers
2/forearm
3/yes
4/ normally I have pain in the big squishy part of my thumb just below the palm (I'm pretty sure it's because I'm gripping the neck)
5/I'm an administrator

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

Hello

We have but I realised it's also a problem when I play slowly after I slowed my playing down

Here are my answers

1/ where did the hand tire..in the palm or in the fingers?

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

1/ in the fingers

2/did you tire anywhere else?

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

2/forearm

3/did you experience a burning sensation in the forearm?

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

3/yes

4/ how did these feeling differ from what you normally experience?

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

4/ normally I have pain in the big squishy part of my thumb just below the palm (I'm pretty sure it's because I'm gripping the neck)

5/if you have a day job what is it?

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

5/I'm an administrator

What we have is indeed over use and mis-use of the thumb.
The differences you felt when the thumb was off the neck was because you are bringing only your fingers to the neck. That is one movement.. the fingers come to the neck.
Because of this there is no thumb use so the muscles that govern and control the thumb movement are not directely involved.
It is only the finger muscles in the forearms that are being used, that is why you feel the burning sensations in there and that is correct muscle use.
With more practise using the thumb off technique it will improve and become less as you tone these muscles.

When you put the thumb back in to the playing, let the finger "remember" how they worked with the thumb not being used and develop that feeling. When the thumb has learned to be a passive support, a pivot if you will, that allows the fingers to be positioned via the forearm and elbow, then all they have to do is play, and the thumb just has to not let them become a grip again by getting involved.

Your job as an administrator may have you use your hands in a way that make a grip function with the thumb a natural thing you do in everyday life, look there for ways to reduce its use.

What you do when you grip is you move the thumb and the fingers together in one movement, a pincer movement, when anyone plays it should just be the fingers that move, no grip or pincer movement required, as shown when you played with the thumb off the neck.
The muscles in the forearm come in to better and proper use because the thumb is not being used.

In the hand power is in the Ulnar side, that is the little finger side, dexterity and precision are in the radial side, that is the thumb side.
What you are doing is applying power to the wrong side of the hand, why? Well because the design of the neck allows you to do this.

Do you need to support the guitar? No the strap does that.

Then why do you then need to grip the neck? You don't as you have seen movement of the fingers does not need a grip.

Then why do i grip the neck? Any use of the thumb is subtle one, the thumb remains out of use when to the side, that is it's relaxed position.
We can grip things without using the thumb, the Ulnar side takes care of that.

Try and grip something in your hands as tight, as secure and as hard as you can. Notice the thumb really has nothing to do with it. But now use the dexterity side, and try again this time with the fingertips and thumb involved. This position is similar to the one advocated in playing bass, so the thumb will want to get involved, it will want to grip, make that pincer movement.

How many times do you read that the thumb should be behind the fingers, or straight up half way on the neck, or never let the thumb come over the top, or keep the thumb ridged etc?

I say this, if the thumb has no real use in playing, why struggle to control it?

Let the thumb do what it has to do, so long as there is no pain or problems with what you are trying to achieve then there is no harm. You will use a technique that allows you to function the best way that you can, not what someone else can.

Add to this diet, warm up, hydration, warm down, stretches and so forth and you will lessen the stresses on you hands.

Here's a great link to an article by one of the worlds leading hand doctors, who is also a musician, read all five pages its good stuff to think about.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.12/mccarthy.html

[groove pump]

I notice that I'll play with too much tension/pressure in my hands if I'm not properly turned up. If I push my master a bit, it pretty much forces me to use lighter touch on the strings.

Sort of funny realizing that I've got 1,400 watts to push my stage sound, but I'm trying to goose my volume by both pressing the frets and plucking harder.

[Evil Undead]

Hi Fergie
Sorry, I've only just seen your response, no idea why it didn't come up in my sub'd threads before...
Very interesting points you put across there, and I have no doubt that you're correct.

I wonder, could it be because of this... most of the time when I practice at home, I play unplugged. I live in an apartment block, and am concerned that if I plug in I might annoy my neighbours! So I'm probably struggling to hear any sound coming from my bass.
Also, my action isn't as low as I'd like it, could this be another thing that's causing me to dig in with my fretting hand?

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

Hi Fergie
Sorry, I've only just seen your response, no idea why it didn't come up in my sub'd threads before...
Very interesting points you put across there, and I have no doubt that you're correct.

I wonder, could it be because of this... most of the time when I practice at home, I play unplugged. I live in an apartment block, and am concerned that if I plug in I might annoy my neighbours! So I'm probably struggling to hear any sound coming from my bass.
Also, my action isn't as low as I'd like it, could this be another thing that's causing me to dig in with my fretting hand?

Interesting point to your situation, and i see no reason as to why it may not be a factor. So i would test out that idea by buying software that allowed to use my PC via headphones or one of the many headphone based alternatives that are around.

Fact is, if any one is struggling to hear themselves they instinctively play harder, maybe you practice routine is ingraining this habit. The idea of turning you amp up on stage to play gentler is a sound principal. What you then need to to is play gentle but make it look like, yes look like, you are giving it your all......stage craft

Another point of fact, i never practiced with an amp in the house, and i when at jams when i use another players bass and equipment, never change a thing settings wise, i am always louder and more defined than them.
When as a kid i practised by pushing the head of the bass against doors to hear the resonant sound of the bass. This allowed me to i believe, work with the basses resonance and in doing so gave me the ability i have now. Try it..touch the headstock against the middle of a door and listen...it will become more audible. Any large wooden surface will do the job so long as it can resonate, so will resonate better than others. At my grandmothers they had a large wardroom that was better for this than anything i ever could find.