I have a confession and need help!

[willrwilli]

I have been playing bass for some 20+ years. I have always been able to get and keep gigs. I have been playing Gospel music for the last 17 years. The confession is I have never learned any theory and have always relied on my ear. I am now 46 years old and I believe age is catching up with talent. The reason I say this is because it just seems like it is taking me longer to learn songs. In the past I could learn a song on the spot, and now it seems like I have to sit down and hammer them out more. I do know the notes on the neck but not nearly as good as I should. I am thinking my first step should be to learn the neck flawlessly. I want to know what tools you all would recommend for this, and or what other approach you would recommend. I want to take my playing to the next level, and I know learning theory is essential.

[Earthday]

Learn it in chunks. If you don't know every note of every fret in the first 5 frets, make that your priority for the week. Then keep moving outward.

Also, a double whammy for you, one of the best ways to learn the notes of the neck is to just start reading music. Walking basslines might be a good place to start, since the rhythm is constant and you only have to worry about the notes. If you can see the notes on paper, know what notes are, and then play them on your bass without thinking, you truly know the notes of the fretboard. You'll learn a lot as you begin to read music just by figuring out where the notes are and the different places you can play them.

[willrwilli]

Originally Posted by Earthday

Learn it in chunks. If you don't know every note of every fret in the first 5 frets, make that your priority for the week. Then keep moving outward.

Also, a double whammy for you, one of the best ways to learn the notes of the neck is to just start reading music. Walking basslines might be a good place to start, since the rhythm is constant and you only have to worry about the notes. If you can see the notes on paper, know what notes are, and then play them on your bass without thinking, you truly know the notes of the fretboard. You'll learn a lot as you begin to read music just by figuring out where the notes are and the different places you can play them.

Thanks for the fast reply. I will start with that. And see what other advice I get. I have a friend that went to Berkley (I wish I still had his number) and he would also talk about learning the circle of fifths. I know that is further down the road, but I really want to do this the right way.

[JimmyM]

It ain't brain surgery. It shouldn't be a problem for someone who already knows how to make music on an instrument.

[willrwilli]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

It ain't brain surgery. It shouldn't be a problem for someone who already knows how to make music on an instrument.

Yes this is true. I just have to start correcting 20+ years of bad habits.

[basskopf]

will, just don't try to do too much theory at once, it can get pretty dry.

i spent some time trying to learn all the notes on the fretboard, but some of it ended up as a wrote memory exercise. i am doing better by finding the practical application, e.g. knowing where roots, 5ths, octaves and most intervals are allows me to identify notes. i play scales and don't always name the notes but know which ones are right because i understand the scale structure and can apply it in any key. so do i need all the note names? not necessarily.

i have had excellent experience with ed friedland's bass books because they are a nice combination of theory and practice. try his blues bass, jazz bass or building walking bass lines. all the books come with a CD. if you can't read a chart, you can listen to the CD, then work backwards to the sheet music to understand it.

[MalcolmAmos]

The bass guitar fretboard is a piece of cake if you let patterns help you.
Print this off.
http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/basschart.htm

Song is in C your chords are C, F & G

Find C F & G on your fretboard. Hint look for C on the 3rd string. Where is C? 3rd string 3rd fret. Where is F? right above the C. Where is G? Right below the C. Yep, it's not rocket science.

Song now is in A and your chords are A, D & E. Find A, D & E - look on the 3rd string again. How about A at the nut and where is D, yep above the A and where is E, yep below the A.

Works like that all over your fretboard.

Want to play a Root 5 for that first song. What is the 5th of C? Don't need theory just your fingers or toes whichever, C, D, E, F, G. Where is a G that is close to C? How about up a string and over two. Works like that all over the fret board. The 5th of something is always up a string and over two.

Here is the major scale pattern”

D|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
G|---6---|-------|---7---|---1---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Place the Root note (name of the scale) 3rd fret 4th string = the G major scale. 5th fret 4th string = the A Major scale. Notice where the 5 is. Yep right where it is supposed to be. Yes the 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 are always in their spot just waiting for you. Place the root and the scale is waiting for you and better still the notes are always in their specific individual spot.

Now instead of placing your root on the 4th string, place the root on the 3rd string and see how you could use that.

Here is a major scale chart:
Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb

Check it out for yourself - take the major scale pattern and place it on that fretboard chart you printed off, place the root and see if just that specific scale's notes are waiting within the pattern. You don't really need to know where every note is IF you know how to use patterns. Place the pattern correctly and the scale's notes are waiting for you in there assigned spot every time. Piece of cake.

Now standard notation was mentioned and yes standard notation must enter your musical World one of these days. Patterns are a short cut.

Have fun.

[Pitbull Growl]

I'm not trying to be a douche... just wanna clear up any possible confusion. I think you accidentally labeled the G as a D and vice versa on the major scale pattern tab.


Also FWIW...
While it's not an instructional book (ala Mel Bay) I find the Bass Grimoire to be an invaluable resource when it comes to "What can/can't I do in the confines of this chord progression" type situations.
HTH

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Pitbull Growl

I'm not trying to be a douche... just wanna clear up any possible confusion. I think you accidentally labeled the G as a D and vice versa on the major scale pattern tab.

If I did I do want to clear that up.

Major scale from the Internet:
|--A--|-----|--B--|--C--| -1st string
|--E--|-----|--F#-|--G--|
|--B--|--C--|-----|--D--|
|-----|--G--|-----|--A--| -4th string

Major scale from my post:
D|--2--|-----|--3--|--4--| 1st string
G|--6--|-----|--7--|--1--|
A|--3--|--4--|-----|--5--|
E|-----|--R--|-----|--2--|4th string

Understand it's generic, where did I mess up?

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

If I did I do want to clear that up.

D|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
G|---6---|-------|---7---|---1---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Understand it's generic, where did I mess up?

labeling the strings

[MalcolmAmos]

You are correct, sorry about that.

[willrwilli]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

The bass guitar fretboard is a piece of cake if you let patterns help you.
Print this off.
http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/basschart.htm

Song is in C your chords are C, F & G

Find C F & G on your fretboard. Hint look for C on the 3rd string. Where is C? 3rd string 3rd fret. Where is F? right above the C. Where is G? Right below the C. Yep, it's not rocket science.

Song now is in A and your chords are A, D & E. Find A, D & E - look on the 3rd string again. How about A at the nut and where is D, yep above the A and where is E, yep below the A.


Works like that all over your fretboard.

Want to play a Root 5 for that first song. What is the 5th of C? Don't need theory just your fingers or toes whichever, C, D, E, F, G. Where is a G that is close to C? How about up a string and over two. Works like that all over the fret board. The 5th of something is always up a string and over two.

Here is the major scale pattern”

D|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
G|---6---|-------|---7---|---1---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Place the Root note (name of the scale) 3rd fret 4th string = the G major scale. 5th fret 4th string = the A Major scale. Notice where the 5 is. Yep right where it is supposed to be. Yes the 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 are always in their spot just waiting for you. Place the root and the scale is waiting for you and better still the notes are always in their specific individual spot.

Now instead of placing your root on the 4th string, place the root on the 3rd string and see how you could use that.

Here is a major scale chart:
Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb

Check it out for yourself - take the major scale pattern and place it on that fretboard chart you printed off, place the root and see if just that specific scale's notes are waiting within the pattern. You don't really need to know where every note is IF you know how to use patterns. Place the pattern correctly and the scale's notes are waiting for you in there assigned spot every time. Piece of cake.

Now standard notation was mentioned and yes standard notation must enter your musical World one of these days. Patterns are a short cut.

Have fun.

This is a big help.

[RAM]

All this is certainly great advice, and ultimately it's going to be up to you how you learn. If I can offer any advice up, I'd start with getting a solid understanding of where the notes are in relation to each other. For example, if you understand how the major scale is constructed, being whole steps all the way up except for the intervals between the third and fourth, and the seventh and eighth notes of the scale, you have a beginning.

Start with the C maj scale first. If you know where the C is (the third fret of the A string), play it and call out loud each note of the scale as you play it. After doing this for a while, try changing the intervals of the same scale, alternating the pattern. Keep calling out each note as you play it.

Next, move the same scale to a different location on the neck. The C is also the eighth fret of the E string, the fingering pattern is (obviously) the same. Practice the same exercise of calling out each note as you play it, then change up the pattern of the scale.

Another exercise you can practice is to get some blank staff paper at any music store. Challenge yourself to write out the C maj scale.

Once you've mastered this scale, move on to the other major scales. Devote a fair amount of time to each. Obviously the actual playing of the scale won't be the challenge, so make sure you don't fall back on old behaviors of just playing to play - concentrate on understanding where they are. After you're able to write it out on a staff, compose a set of scales and play them after they're written out.

Another thing I'd recommend is learning to play a major scale in different patterns. Try playing a one-octave major scale on one string. Then try playing it on two strings. Then try playing a two-octave major scale. Rather than simply memorizing it, try to challenge yourself to come up with different ways to play the same scale.

Everybody has their own technique of learning to read, and this is just one suggestion I can think of...maybe you'll find a different way. Above all else, I'd recommend trying to be creative in your approach to mastering things like the major scale. And once the major scale is under your belt, then try the minor scales (there are several versions, and some, such as the jazz minor, actually have a different note selection on the way up than on the way down. Since these can become more complicated, I'd start off with something easy like the major scale.)

Side note: by suggesting this method, I'm assuming you understand how to play a major scale. If not, it's very easy to learn, especially if you already have a trained ear and have been playing for over 20 years.

[countrybassist]

So you're confessing to playing gospel music without and real theory. I would say that a few Our fathers and some Hail Mary's should set you straight! lol!!!!!!!!!!

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by willrwilli

I am thinking my first step should be to learn the neck flawlessly. I want to know what tools you all would recommend for this

it's cut and paste day for me...
---------------------------------------
LEARNING THE FINGERBOARD
---------------------------------------
when I first picked up the bass I memorized the open strings (EADG) and then memorized each "dotted" fret up to the octave:
open:EADG
3rd fret:GCFA#
5th fret:ADGC
7th fret:BEAD
9th fret:C#F#BE
Ocatve:EADG

With those notes memorized, I could quickly figure out "in between" notes based on the dotted ones. If you can instantly find E then you can almost as instantly figure out where E flat is. It was enough to get me by at first.

I never made a deliberate effort to memorize the rest of the neck, eventually I just absorbed the knowledge via experience.

[Lichtaffen]

An exercise an old guitar teacher of mine taught me for memorizing all the notes on the neck:

Set the metronome to a slow tempo. Pick a note, G for example. Play G in every spot on the neck one string at a time, but play it in time with the metronome. Then pick another note and do the same. The pressure of keeping in time with the metronome will force you to learn the notes quickly and it will eventually become automatic. I can't tell you how much this has helped me with visualizing notes on the fretboard.

Or you can just learn to read music as Earthday mentioned above.

By the way, you have some really sweet basses in your avatar.

Learn a little every day. Don't worry if you feel confused. After a while things will click together. One difficulty when you learn as an adult is that people will explain everything all at once, rather than doing it all a bit at a time. The reason for this is that as an adult we want to know why we are learning, so we feel the need to explain why. When you're a kid you just learn because you're being told to, and trust that things will make sense one day. Just be patient and come back to it every day and eventually it'll all click together.