i need help with improv and bass line creation

[mrchief128]

i've been playing bass for well over a year...and right now i'm focus on bass line creation and improv...do you guys have advice or links to lessons? i know quite a bit of music theory...and...yeah...http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Lessons/bass0 i've been reading this lesson, and its been pretty helpful, but...i don't know....i'm just having trouble aplying it...the problem is that as of right now, i have no one to play with, , so i've just been playing with songs...from what i've be doing so far, its easier for me to play with someone...anyways...i just feel stuck...i need some tips...

[JimmyM]

Hurry up and find people to jam with!

[-Sam-]

And learn other peoples lines, what genres are you playing? just experiment buy a play along record, but most important play with people

[machine gewehr]

For starting,a program like Band in a Box could be helpfull too,its teaching me,kinda...

[elpelotero]

if you can't find people to jam with, play along to CD's and make up your own lines. After a certain amount of time, regardless of playing with people or playing to cd's, etc..., you will begin to write your own songs. It's a natural thing that kind of just comes to you. And over time you get better at realizing what is simply some random noise and what constitutes good material.

[mrchief128]

thanks...you guys are helping...i guess what this all means to mean is that i need to keep on keeping on....but when you all first were learning improv and bass line creation, did you have moments when you were really frustrated?

[machine gewehr]

Originally Posted by mrchief128

thanks...you guys are helping...i guess what this all means to mean is that i need to keep on keeping on....but when you all first were learning improv and bass line creation, did you have moments when you were really frustrated?

I am,now.

You feel like you'r stuck,like you wont be able to improve yourself,but I remember times when I used to play without adding nothing to the song,but now, I am the one who emprovises most on the songs we cover.Keep up,we'll be fine.

[cumquott]

One way to regard improvisation is to start with knowing what key you're in and what chords would "fit". If you're in a major key, then you can pretty much use any of the notes in that major key and not sound "wrong", so long as (e.g.) you resolve to a root note at the right time. If you have the guitarist playing a 7th chord, then perhaps you should emphasize the 7th during a solo/bass line. Learn the major and both minor scales, and where the roots are in the various positions, and then learn what makes a 7th, and a maj 7th, and a 9th, and so on for other basic chord forms. Then, suddenly you can skip notes on a scale, knowing that where you're going works, because you know what key you're in and what the scale is. You can practice by playing scales along with songs. Then omit scale steps to create arpeggios.

It helps to realize that strings instruments are unique in that if I know the "shape" (finger pattern) of a C major scale, then I also know the D-flat major scale automagically by simply moving that "shape" one half-tone up the neck. And so on for all 15 keys. Major, minor, whatever, this idea applies. You can't do that on keyboards!

[Fratone]

This may sound bad, but a lot of times when I improv, I find myself playing licks out of basslines I've learned over the years. I'd say, overall, only about 30% of the **** I play when I jam is totally original... the rest is ripped off of sublime and led zep songs.

[Lobster11]

I'm trying to break myself out of the same stuck-ness by practicing scales using completely different patterns and fingerings than the ones I normally use, and by trying to re-learn all of the songs I know using these different patterns and fingerings. Playing a scale using a different pattern than usual opens up your ears and fingers to all kinds of new possibilities. As a bonus, it forces you to learn the fingerboard better as well!

[Dogbertday]

I find myself in that rut more times then not. To get out of it what I'll do is set a metronome and play whole note chord changes on a piano. I record this a few times over then I'll play bass over it.

The key is that I don't really worry about what chords are gong on on the piano. If what i play sounds good, then it sounds good. If it doesn't i get off it. This forces me to use intervals I usually don't think of. There was only one time that I had to use this technique in an actual solo because I didn't know the changes to start. but let me tell ya, walking a line was much harder in those condtions..

Rhythmicly, for new ideas I play with new drummers. If I find a good innovative drummer to play with, the slight variations on the groove will keep things interesting sometimes even if I'm playing only one or two notes.

[Fishbrain]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...660889-1075960

[Cristo]

Another idea is to try an "old school" method and play along with the radio.

You don't know what's coming up, and you don't get to "rewind" and try it again. You just try to pick it up real time.

You don't have to worry so much about playing "the" bass line as playing "a" bass line that works.

[fcleff]

Originally Posted by mrchief128

....but when you all first were learning improv and bass line creation, did you have moments when you were really frustrated?

After 20+ years of playing I still have those moments. Find some guys that are better than you and will let you sit in with them. That way you can try some stuff with more experienced players and learn a few things. Check our your local community college and see if they have a jazz band program. It may not be the greatest program but you will get what you need and decide when to move on.

[jpark369]

i know there are many different ways to play each scale. does this make a difference when to use the different scale types, or is it only a difference in the octave? example, the c major, you can start on the 8th fret on the e, or the 3rd fret on the a? which c do you choose and does that matter only on the key of the song and your preferance on how you want it to sound? also, some scales dont start with the root, like going from the 5,7,8 on the e, 8 being the root, then 5,7,8 on the a, and on to 5,7 on the d. does this also make a difference or is it just the sound preference? sorry about all the questions, just eager to learn. thanks

[Mixmasta J]

To answer your first question, it depends on where you want to go. If you wanted to hit the low F on a four string bass, then you would probably need to stay in the 3rd position C on the A-string, although it isn't impossible to use the 8th position C. The 8th position C does give you extended range into the upper register though, so it is impossible to say what is better out of the context of the improvisational line. Also, playing them in different positions gives a different sound quality because of position and string tensions.

As for improv, all my advice comes from jam band and jazz situations. Learn your major and minor keys. For example, in the key of C-major, it is common for the notes C, E, G, and sometimes B in a major 7, to be played. They will fit the key, and sound "right". In c minor, one might use C, Eb, G, and Bb. This rule applies almost all of the time, as any note in the scale will work, although the 4th of a scale often leads to unnecessary tension.

Once one knows that, they can apply modes. In a nutshell, a mode is simply another way to play the scale. For example, C minor spelled out is C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C. If you play the same notes starting on the 3rd of this scale (Eb) it looks like this Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb. This is an Eb Ionian, or major, scale. This works for all of the notes in the scale, so if you want to solo in C minor (note the use of a natural minor scale), you can use modes to freshen up the improv and add different colors.

This works for bass lines as well, as lines can be creating using such notes. My suggestion is to stick towards the tonal center of each chord at first, and if you start improving with practice, move away from the "norm" and express yourself. Thats what music is. Scales are important, but making a musical statement comes before all.


I hope this helped

- Joe Goal

[jpark369]

yeah that helped alot. thanks. the final statement of staying away from the norm is the most significant i believe. i have been teaching myself bass for around a year, and ive progressed fairly well, well enough to play with a guitar whos been at it for 7 years, and a drummer whos been playing since he was 5. i tend to struggle with learning all this scale, mode, stuff, or just playing what sounds good. when we jam, thats what i do. it just comes to me and i cant tell you what i'm playing, but it sounds "right". thats what makes the most sense as being important to me. thanks alot mane.