I think I have a problem...

[jdieh1]

I have no idea if this has been discussed to death but what the hell. If it has please feel free to link me to a good thread that regards this issue, if you don't mind.

So I have been playing off and on for a while now (two or so years) and have been teaching myself. Originally I played using my fingers because I like the sound of fingers better than with a pick and I'm not really interested in slapping/popping (Just a bit of extra info). ANYWAY.

I recently changed to a pick because a (guitarist) friend recommended it to me to help with my timing issues. Aaannnddd, it has helped. But the thing is that I prefer the sound that I get with using my fingers.

So I guess my question is actually a few questions.

a) How can I get a fingerstyle tone out of a pick?
I have tried different gauge picks without much luck

b) How can I improve my fingerstyle technique to get better timing?
To elaborate more on what is wrong with my fingerstyle technique:

I can play in time reasonably well using only one finger and also with a three finger gallop. But when I use two fingers, alternating, I find it difficult to control the speed of my playing and it tends to vary from in time, to too fast, then to too slow. Then I usually just repeat that process before realising that I'm out of time

I suppose my fingers get tired or something? Ugh, I don't know.


Any help is greatly appreciated

[Maxi]

a) You can't

b) Play with a metronome

[topper]

You won't ever get a finger style tone out of a pick.

If you want that tone, you'll have to practice with your fingers.

Try a basic exercise like chromatically walking up the fretboard slowly. Begin with F on the E string, then F#, G, G# alternating fingers on your right hand. Then do the same on the A string, then the D, then the G. Do this on all strings walking all the way up the neck to at least the 12th fret. Keep the tempo slow and steady (use a drum machine or metronome) speed isn't the goal here. As you get more comfortable start increasing the tempo.

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by Maxi

a) You can't

b) Play with a metronome

c) play slowly at first

d) make sure the attack is similar with either finger

e) keep your hand relaxed

[mpm32]

Maybe try a felt pick.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...ick?sku=110302

[PJSShearer]

Try holding your finger and thumb as if you were holding a pick and plucking using the nail and/or pad of your forefinger as the plectrum.

Bernard Edwards of Chic used this technique when playing the Bass line to "Everybody Dance" - he called it "chucking" - you can see it demoed on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnBJWwK4kks

Saves on Buying Plectrums :-)

[Buogon]

I use to grow my nail out just enough to apply to the the string to give me a pick sound when using the finger technique. With the two finger technique my theory was to apply it in terms of a horse galloping,if you tap you fingers on on a table or something else using 1-2 or 2-1 or 1-2-3 you will get feel of this and it can help with your timing.

[Kuchar]

Feel the music and tap your foot.

That's what I do

[tpmiller08]

Best way to mimic finger style with pick ( I think) is to play with a thick rubber pick, and play up on the neck, just near the fretboard, or even over some of your higher frets.

I saw a few people do this, tried it myself, I think its the closest you'll find.

Why not just learn to play with your fingers though? Versatility for the win =) I thought I'd never use picks until I had to record with one once. Ya never know what the day will call for


-Troy

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by jdieh1

I recently changed to a pick because a (guitarist) friend recommended it to me to help with my timing issues.

*sigh* Yet another example of the trend I've discovered, where guitards are considere the "font of all wisdom," and bassists just do what they're told because, after all, they're guitards, so they must know better...

Your timing issues as you describe them are simply a matter of practice. Use a metronome, devote X number of hours per week to practicing, use a metronome, play exercises that are predominately all the same meter (mostly eight-notes, e.g.), and use a metronome.

Oh, and you should use a metronome.

[lowb1970]

Many professional players will grow their nails out so that they can curl their fingers a little to play with the nail and "imitate" the pick sound. I have done this many times but still wish I could play with a pick as well as I can with my fingers.

[wildhorse]

Yes a felt pick can help but I keep putting mine down and reverting back to my fingers. Use my nails when I want a brighter sound here and there.

[wildhorse]

Oh and BTW I'm not suggesting this but Johnny Fortune used to super glue cut ping pong balls on his nails.... He was a guitar player though.

[tpmiller08]

I didnt use a metronome for a long time. It helps for sure, DEFINATLY pick one up. But they do take the soul of my basslines when I (me personally) use them.

Take the songs you've learned, and play to them(*The actual song, as the band plays it, you play to the track). Make sure you learn the WHOLE song, play to them a bunch of times. Works on your ear a bit, helps timing a bunch, and is funner then playing to clicks.

I usually practice my scales to the metronome, just so I get a feel for playing at the same timing for like...ever


I don't think switching to a pick is the way you should go here. Good to know both, but if you like the sound of finger plucking better, don't listen to your guitarist. Just do what feels and sounds right to you, ALWAYS!

Your technique might be off to. Make sure your always alternating fingers, try tilting you hand so your middle and index finger are both flat against the string (because your middle finger is longer, ya dig?), and play as soft as possible. Playing soft helps build your consistancy. If you play hard all the time, it'll be distorted and you won't notice inconsistancies as easy. If you play soft, then if you'll notice if your playing too hard (string will distort), or if your too soft, you'll probaly miss the string.

Just an idea =)


-Troy

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

I didnt use a metronome for a long time. It helps for sure, DEFINATLY pick one up. But they do take the soul of my basslines when I (me personally) use them.

I think this is a common misconception among less experienced players...that playing with a metronome can somehow "rob" you of your feel. It's as wrong as thinking that learning music theory or reading will "hurt" your creativity...

It's important to realize: There is a difference between good tempo and good timing (aka groove/feel/ ect...).

When you use a metronome, you start by developing good tempo which requires most of your focus at first; that's why you "can't feel the music" -because your paying most of your attention to tempo.

As you achieve reasonably solid tempo, which is hopefully becoming an unconscious habit, you can shift your focus from tempo, and begin listening deeply and playing with feeling.

not that my tempo is perfect by any means...but It gets me by...

to the OP:
+1 get a met; start slowly.
Speed comes from accuracy, not the reverse.

[Ric5]

I love the pick ... I also love finger playing ... my advice get good at both ...

Try a pick made with a softer plastic like derlin, delrex, tortex ... they make less of a clicky noise

[Mikio]

well, I play with a pick when I want it to sound as played with a pick, why would I want something different?

want fingertone? play with your fingers xP

[PRUNEFACE]

it's possible to get a pick sound out of fingers (fingernails) but not the other way around

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I think this is a common misconception among less experienced players...that playing with a metronome can somehow "rob" you of your feel. It's as wrong as thinking that learning music theory or reading will "hurt" your creativity...

It's important to realize: There is a difference between good tempo and good timing (aka groove/feel/ ect...).

When you use a metronome, you start by developing good tempo which requires most of your focus at first; that's why you "can't feel the music" -because your paying most of your attention to tempo.

As you achieve reasonably solid tempo, which is hopefully becoming an unconscious habit, you can shift your focus from tempo, and begin listening deeply and playing with feeling.

not that my tempo is perfect by any means...but It gets me by...

to the OP:
+1 get a met; start slowly.
Speed comes from accuracy, not the reverse.

This is a common misconception among "more" experienced musicians....that playing with a metronome is absolutely necessary, 24/7

I just don't need one to play in time, while recording or gigging. One of the things I excel in. Some people have things come naturally, others have trouble with it. I can keep time and rhythm like no ones business, but learning to slap and pop has been a LONG process, and I still find it hard. What comes naturally to you, I can find almost un-doable without loads of effort, and vice versa.

Definatly didn't say, and am not saying, to not use a metronome. But when I play to one, it makes my bass lines too structured for my taste.

I don't get the point of using a metronome always. I use mine when I practice, and use it for about 15 minutes a day. But isn't the point of using a metronome to help you keep time without one? Maybe I'm off point here. But if you use a metronome constantly, and never play without one, isn't it more of a crutch than anything?

Thought the point was to play with a metronome, so when you don't use one, you can keep time dead on.

-Troy

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

Thought the point was to play with a metronome, so when you don't use one, you can keep time dead on.

Actually, I agree completely. Practice with a met so you can perform without. Sorry if I conveyed any other impression ( or if you felt I was somehow attacking on you...) I've just seen too many beginners advised to avoid a metronome, which I find silly.
The only reason to use a metronome in actual performance would be a click track for recording or playing along with techno gear.