Improv tips?

BassClef 2010 · #1 06-03-2010, 12:07 PM

Hey guys,
I've been having some trouble with improvising on bass. I know my scales, but I just can't seem to play a coherent solo. Got any tips for me?

odin70 · #2 06-03-2010, 12:17 PM

Find a simple solo that you like and transcribe. Play along and analyze.

**251** · #3 06-03-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassClef 2010

Hey guys,
I've been having some trouble with improvising on bass. I know my scales, but I just can't seem to play a coherent solo. Got any tips for me?

Invent a melody respecting the chords, 3 notes over 1 bar, perhaps an enclosure like |3 5 4|. Rest 1 bar & repeat the 2 bar phrase. add 2 or 3 notes in the 2nd measure & play it 2X to complete the 8 bar phrase. Embellish & repeat for a 2nd 8 measures. Play something different over these chords, perhaps more rhythmical for the next 8 bars. Embellish the beginning phrase again & end the last 8 bars by restating the original simple melody. That should get you started. 8-)

Jerrick · #4 06-03-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 251

Invent a melody respecting the chords, 3 notes over 1 bar, perhaps an enclosure like |3 5 4|. Rest 1 bar & repeat the 2 bar phrase. add 2 or 3 notes in the 2nd measure & play it 2X to complete the 8 bar phrase. Embellish & repeat for a 2nd 8 measures. Play something different over these chords, perhaps more rhythmical for the next 8 bars. Embellish the beginning phrase again & end the last 8 bars by restating the original simple melody. That should get you started. 8-)

Interesting! Good idea. I would like to dig it deeply and practice it. Could you take an example for this please? Thanks!

Jazzerbone · #5 06-03-2010, 08:52 PM

LISTEN!!!!!

Seriously. Listen to the people who are good at it. Learn their licks. And don't be afraid to suck. You've got to suck before you get good at anything. Keep cracking at it.

JimmyM · #6 06-03-2010, 11:06 PM

forget scales. use the chords. people who use scales to improvise sound like they're using scales to improvise.

anyway, it comes with practice. in the meantime, learn some solos from musicians whose work you like (not just bass players, either...you can learn a buttload from other instruments as well), and transcribe them as well. as a matter of fact, just flat out steal from them and use their riffs and ideas in your solos until you get good enough on your own.

hint: everyone who improvises builds up a library of riffs they can call upon when they need them. they may not always use them, but they've got them.

Beginner Bass · #7 06-04-2010, 05:38 AM

"There is no wrong solo."
One of my school band directors taught me this. I suggest you find some program that can supply a chord progressin, say a basic 12-bar, put it on loop, and experiment.

**251** · #8 06-04-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrick

Interesting! Good idea. I would like to dig it deeply and practice it. Could you take an example for this please? Thanks!

The melody to Monk's 'Misterioso' does something very similar with 5ths, 6ths & b6ths. 'Blue Monk" also states a simple 4 bar motiv & embellishes a bit to set up the solos.

What I described in the OP is a simple procedure for developing a 1 chorus solo. The basic idea for the improvised melody could come from the song's melody, a different song's melody, a Mozart lick, etc. Bela Bartok was often inspired by Folk songs. Start with what you know. Variations include, note choice, rhythmic (groove) choices, chord substitutions... If you're able, you can solo like a keyboard player, a reed player, a guitar or bass or copy the styles of your favorite musicians. It all depends on what you can do with your instrument.

Hope that helps. 8-)

tZer · #9 06-04-2010, 09:55 AM

Chord tones = melodic
Scales = get you from 'here to there'
"in notes" = chord tones (primarily) and notes within the key signature: These are 'safe' and always sound 'right'
"out notes (accidentals)" = notes not in current chord or key: These are less 'safe' and, if used well, make what your playing sound interesting and unique.

All = valid.

Study melodies. Vocal melodies are a great source. When you improvise, you need to think 'lyrically and melodically'. The bass typically is a melodic instrument providing counter-point to the main melody. Since the bass typically utilizes roots and fifths to anchor the chords for the ensemble you can assume that the instruments providing the melody are not gravitating to the roots (the bass tends to have that covered) - so melodies tend to leverage 3rds and 7ths which sound VERY melodic. Dodge 4ths, but remember, there's no such thing as a 'bad note' and if you hit a 'clinker', try hitting it again, and again - a lot of times that creates a statement that's very interesting.

So - when it comes to improvising (soloing), take the chord you're on and try simply beginning your phrase from the 3rd and see where it 'leads' you. If you are thinking in terms of being melodic - your ear should start to hear where the melody wants to go - and follow it.

Start slow - keep it simple - think melodically. Even better, if there is a clearly defined melody to the song at hand, quote it directly - then expand on it. If you are following another musician's solo, listen to what they did and see if you can 'answer' them by playing something similar.

Ultimately soloing has become synonymous with "showing off" or "being flashy" - and while both can be part of a solo, neither are necessary and moreover, both are very subjective. One thing that is not subjective is being melodic. No one can argue that if you use the chord tones (approach notes and passing tones) and phrasing that emulates a vocal melody that you're not being melodic.

Simple melodic statements will resonate with people far more than blurs of almost incoherent notes - so focus on creating simple, clear melodic statements. Follow them where the logically lead and the flash and dazzle will almost naturally find it's way in to what your doing.

Repetition is a VERY GOOD THING. If you hit a really nice statement, do it again - and again. Build off of it. Evolve it into new statements that you will then repeat.

A good solos with have a lot of really strong, clear statements that are tied together with things like scalar passages and arpeggios, slides - connectors.

Focus on melody, phrasing and clarity. Let the crazy stuff happen as a by-product. Oh, and of course, the more you practice and get your fingers able to answer what your mind comes up with, the better.

ghiadub · #10 06-04-2010, 10:04 AM

Start off with learning a simple melody from a familliar song, a vocal melody perhaps.
Play it on the bass then start changing it with variations. Those variations are you improvising. Practice practice and more practice.

Beginner Bass · #11 06-04-2010, 10:13 AM

Also, "accidentals" are rather volatile. I prefer to use them when approaching a note chromatically, but you can do it however you want to.

Scottgun · #12 06-04-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassClef 2010

Hey guys,
I've been having some trouble with improvising on bass. I know my scales, but I just can't seem to play a coherent solo. Got any tips for me?

What genre of music are you trying to improvise? Rock? Jazz?

**colcifer** · #13 06-04-2010, 10:29 AM

One important thing to remember is that there are no rules. Some tips though:

Think about nursery rhymes and mimic that (what MM does). This give your lines a beginning and and ending.

Watch (and more importantly, listen to) the Jaco dvd. Even though he doesn't address this directly too much (it's a very difficult thing to teach) it'll help.

Be prepared and willing to play some really sucky stuff. You have to dig through the dirt and rocks to get the gold.

skwee · #14 06-04-2010, 10:34 AM

quote another tune. I'm doing a solo on horse with no name lately, and I've interpolated House of the rising sun sometimes.

tZer · #15 06-04-2010, 10:36 AM

Also - practice jamming with a group of guys who will let things roll for a LONG time and give you (and everyone else) a chance to get your sea legs. One thing you can't do is develop great solo chops over the course of one 4 minute jam.

Find a group who is willing to vamp on an 8, 12 or 16 bar progression, ad inf. and take turns stepping up and trying. There's no getting past the initial self-consciousness - and everyone has it - but don't let your own self-consciousness make you say, "screw it... I'll go home, practice and NEXT time I'll get it..." NO - keep at it... make a simple statement - make it again - do a slide - end on a good note, smile and say, "next!" - then see what the next guy does.

LISTEN - and respond and don't let shyness or being concerned that others will think you suck get in the way of going for it. You gotta crawl first... Start crawling... Open those ears... find that group of like-minded jammers and get started finding your voice.

Scottgun · #16 06-04-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

One important thing to remember is that there are no rules.

I think a better adage is that you have to know the rules before you can break them. Anyone can spot the difference between someone with knowledge of music who has been to the woodshed on chordal and harmonic structure and someone who is just wiggling his fingers and offering random burblings of crap.

**251** · #17 06-04-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colcifer

One important thing to remember is that there are no rules. Some tips though:

Think about nursery rhymes and mimic that (what MM does). This give your li

<snip>

Be prepared and willing to play some really sucky stuff. You have to dig through the dirt and rocks to get the gold.

+1 for that. Surrender. Suspend criticism. Letting the music out is essential. You cannot think your way to a better solo. Improvisation is what happened just NOW. 8-)

notdavey · #18 06-04-2010, 03:28 PM

When I started out - I would play along to anything and everything......and attempt soloing over it. Don't be afraid to play "the wrong notes". Just keep at it. Listen to other solos - not just bass. It also helps if you want to solo over a particular song to know the other elements of the song in addition to the bass line with the melody being crucial.

notdavey · #19 06-04-2010, 03:31 PM

Accompiniament programs like Band in a Box also are pretty useful since you can throw in the chord changes and style and just jam along to the MIDI it will play.

Jerrick · #20 06-04-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

Focus on melody, phrasing and clarity. Let the crazy stuff happen as a by-product. Oh, and of course, the more you practice and get your fingers able to answer what your mind comes up with, the better.

Gee...your words in this discussion gave me heaps of amazing, helpful, and constructive ideas and different ways to think about what is improvisation and how to do it. If I can assimilate all of them and carry them out, my playing will definitely raise to next level someday. Thank you so much!!!!

Also, thanks for everyone who came up with some informative points in this discussion. I never know I can learn a lot...a lot here. I love these kind people and this freakin' awesome place