Improvising Help- Scales

[Astrapto]

So whenever I improvise, especially in an uncomfortable situation, I tend to just play scales, or straight scalar runs with repetitive rhythms. I despise this.
It's like I cannot just relax, listen, and come up with something brilliant. So I fall back on the most banal soloing anyone's ever heard.
Also, when I get a cool idea for a fast passage, I'll want to continue the flow of fast ideas; but now I have no ideas, and when you're panicking there's only so many times you can try to embellish the same legitimate idea over and over. Even if I'm completely comfortable onstage, when I have to take a solo I my brain just shuts down. Improvising spontaneous solos (i.e. whenever I feel like it) is usually fine, but bass players don't really get that luxury.
Is there any help/hope!?! Thank you!

[mambo4]

some ideas to try

Playing from the melody : learn the lead melody of the song and start developing your own variations

Playign from the chords
Not simply 'playign chords' - but basing your ideas off of the chord tones that everyone else is playing. you'll automatically be using thirds an fifths and larger steps. Then use scales and your ear to fill in "in between " notes. May require some study time on harmony & chord progressions

Also try this: don't think at all. accept the risk of hitting wrong notes and go by feel alone. Imagine what you want to hear and just go for it. You'll miss/sound bad for awhile but over time, you start "hitting your targets"

[Skitch it!]

Do you practise scales in 3rds (intervals)? Practise them in 4th's, 5th's, 6th's too, it will help you get out of purely scalar motion by increasing your intervallic choices to try and negate the scalar effect, chromatics, approach chromatics and arp's, reversing direction are cool too for opening your options.

And try not to prove anything, just relax, less is more ; )

[MalcolmAmos]

As mambo4 said you can not go too far wrong with playing the tune. Take the lead playing the tune, then after 4 to 6 bars.....
go into your improvisation (rendition of the tune) somewhere around 16 to 24 bars ............ return to the tune and give the lead back to someone else ........ so the tune can continue ...... with another lead break or go back to the vocalist.

Nothing keeping you from playing the tune. As mentioned, pentatonic scales following the chord progression is a good first step.

Now who says you have to take a lead break? We play a lot of songs with out a lead break. I'd rather hear a song with no lead break than a song with a bad lead break.

[Akshat]

**** scales and chords.sing in your head or aloud.try playing that.

[JTE]

You get good at whatever you practice. If you practice playing scales, that's what you're good at. So, what to practice so you get good at making music instead of just running the scales? Use those essential building blocks to get to the music.

First, you should know basic chords. Not by looking 'em up on a chart, but KNOW them. That means you know what the main chords are from how they're built out of the major scale. So that assumes you OWN the diatonic major scale.

A. Can you play the diatonic major scale and know what notes you're playing everywhere on the neck over two octaves (minimum) ascending and descending. That is you know
a1. The whole step/half step formula
a2. How to determine (NOT look 'em up, or have them memorized, but you can figure them out for yourself) the correct notes of any of the 12 major keys. That includes knowing and understanding why the key of Bb has an Eb and not a D# in it.
a3. You can find the notes and play them smoothly up and down the neck over two octaves for all 12 keys.
Without all this, you do NOT really "know" the scale!!

B. You have a basic understanding of harmony.
b1. You know what a major, minor, dominant 7, minor 7, augmented, diminished, and major 7 chord are. That is, you KNOW that major is 1, 3, 5; that minor7 is 1, b3, 5, b7, that diminished is 1, b3, b5, bb7, etc.
b2. You can take what you learned in A about scales, and use what you know in B to find the correct notes for any of the main chords- again over at least two octave ascending and descending. And you can keep track of this without always starting on the root.

C. You can find simple melodies on the neck. Can you sing "Happy Birthday" to yourself and find those notes on the neck? It's exactly the same process as learning the bass line to a song- they're just notes. Find 'em.

Then the hard and time consuming part- You gotta practice improvising. So, record a chord progression over which you want to practice soloing. Lock your bass up in its case so you wont' be tempted to take shortcuts that are ultimately detrimental.

Now, listen to the recording of that progression several times, like at least 20. Just listen at first. Then listen and imagine what a good solo would sound like over that. Now SING what you think is a good solo. Sing it even if you sing like me (once described as "imagine a duet with Linda McCartney and Yoko Ono). Sing a solo, and record that solo.

Now and only now, get your bass out, and learn exactly what you sang. Don't dumb it down or make it fancier. Nail the rhythms, the inflections, the notes that have awkward fingering, etc. Learn that solo exactly as you sang it. Note-for-note isn't good enough, you want to make your bass sing the solo.

Then analyze the solo using the tools you got from the scale and arpeggio studies in A and B. Figure out where you're using chord tones, where you went chromatic, where you pushed the harmony, where you laid into the harmony. Learn where you rushed the groove, where you laid back in it, where you got louder, where you got more quiet, where you pushed the attack, etc.

That is the music in you. Making yourself go through this process helps you express the music in you rather than putting your fingers where they are comfortable going. Let the music lead you, rather than the fingers leading the music.

Do it in this order because the scales are building block analogous to learning the alphabet, and chords are analogous to learning the words (vocabulary). Then while you're working on this singing thing, also listen to great soloists to build a bigger repetoir. If you only read Winnie The Pooh, you can have a big vocabulary and know the letters, but you won't have the same pool of ideas and ways of stringing together sentences. But if you read A. A. Milne, Shakespeare, C. S. Lewis, Douglas Addams, John Steinbeck, Chaucer, Stan Lee, etc. you've gotten a wider example of things to do with words. It's the same with music- if you only listen to Jaco, you're limiting yourself. But if you LISTEN to Ella Fitzgerald, Howlin' Wolf, Bach, Oscar Peterson, George Jones, Bootsy Collins, Mike Stern, Roy Eldridge, Frank Sinatra, Aretha, etc. you've got more ideas to incorporate in your soloing.

John

[dalkowski]

Originally Posted by Skitch it!

Do you practise scales in 3rds (intervals)? Practise them in 4th's, 5th's, 6th's too, it will help you get out of purely scalar motion by increasing your intervallic choices to try and negate the scalar effect, chromatics, approach chromatics and arp's, reversing direction are cool too for opening your options.

OP's situation sounds similar to mine, and I do this stuff all the time.
Keep at it!

[M Sterling]

Maybe you could try to base your solo around a groove, instead of a scale or melody. I like playing modally and melodically, but sometimes my best solos are when I base them around a thematic groove figure and embellish with increasing intensity. It's also a good way to keep the context of the song without having to play the melody. I usually find that whenever I go into a solo with a concept, it gives me some kind of structure to improvise on, and makes me more comfortable.

Also, don't forget to breathe and relax yourself before and throughout your solo. Sometimes we get caught up in the moment and forgetting to regulate your breathing is a good way to cause stress. You want to be able to enjoy yourself so have fun and keep a sense of humor in it, and you will be fine.

[what the pluck]

some good advice I read somewhere on TB was, when you practice your scales, learn all the notes from the root down to your open E string and play down to the lowest possible note you can play in the scale.

[puddin tame]

you're overthinking it man.

don't force it, and if you don't have anything to say then don't say anything