I've developed a timing issue, and was hoping to get some solutions (sound clip)

Frugle · #1 09-12-2006, 06:09 PM

I know this sounds stupid, but I didn't have this before... I'm a relatively new bassist, but I don't think I've ever struggled durring a song to keep time. and i really have been recently.

It seems to be a bad habbit i've developed recently and I can't seem to get over it...

Here is my observation, I feel like I'm wrapping my finger around the string and pulling it a little instead of plucking...but it is inconsistant.. I only do it sometimes..

Can I please have some recomendations to fix my timing problem? one of the things I HATE about bassist is some of them can't keep time, and I really don't want to be a part of that minority.

Here is a small clip... we were playing Corinne Bailey Rae's "Get your record on". The timing problem is really noticeable in the beginning, and during when I got carried way during a chorus towards the end.

http://www.frugled.com/media/Bass.mp3

thanks.

banjo1735 · #2 09-12-2006, 06:16 PM

Practice with a metronome. Whenever you record, use a click track.

Frugle · #3 09-12-2006, 07:07 PM

Yeah, I know that, and I've been doing that, but I knock myself off the click (and I know when I do it, I can hear the proper time in my head)

I've been practicing with a metronome for a while now. I was curious if there was another way to practice, or a specific scale to use when practicing that would help.

Frugle · #4 09-12-2006, 07:09 PM

I guess what i'm saying is, is that i'm stuck.. I've practiced all I know to practice, and all I know to do, but I'm not getting any better, and was looking for an alternative way to practice.

lemur821 · #5 09-12-2006, 07:31 PM

Have you used a metronome to work it up slowly (like from quarter notes at 40 bpm to whatever speed you like, moving by 1 bpm increments) yet?

tZer · #6 09-12-2006, 07:42 PM

Metronomes are the only cure for bad timing.

Do what lemur821 said - start slow - get it PERFECT - don't increase your bpm until you get it PERFECT - and you know when you nail it and when you are short-cutting, so don't try to BS yourself into thinking, "Ok, that was OK. I know I flubbed that one spot but..." (click up the nome 20bpm) "Now let's fly!" - no, no, no... Slow, slow, slow.

You can practice scales in different rhythm patterns - triplets, 1/16th, 1/8th, 1/4th - dotted 1/4ths - mix 'em up. Bottom line - make the metronome your constant companion and never practice without one.

velvetkevorkian · #7 09-12-2006, 07:44 PM

What he said. tZer, you just summed up my bad practice habits in one post.

Jim Carr · #8 09-12-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

Metronomes are the only cure for bad timing.

Do what lemur821 said - start slow - get it PERFECT - don't increase your bpm until you get it PERFECT - and you know when you nail it and when you are short-cutting, so don't try to BS yourself into thinking, "Ok, that was OK. I know I flubbed that one spot but..." (click up the nome 20bpm) "Now let's fly!" - no, no, no... Slow, slow, slow.

You can practice scales in different rhythm patterns - triplets, 1/16th, 1/8th, 1/4th - dotted 1/4ths - mix 'em up. Bottom line - make the metronome your constant companion and never practice without one.

+1 good advice!

Frugle · #9 09-12-2006, 07:46 PM

thanks!

Steve · #10 09-12-2006, 10:04 PM

Excellent advice. Sometimes you just hit a patch that takes a little longer for whatever reason.

Don't practice untill you get it right, practice until you never get it wrong.

lemur821 · #11 09-13-2006, 06:33 AM

And it will probably be very frustrating for a while... you'll be doing fine at slow speeds, but unable to pick up the pace. That's just how it goes. I still haven't got the hang of sweep picking (partly because I haven't done enough metronome practice).

morf · #12 09-13-2006, 06:38 AM

Its not that you've developped a problem, I think rather than that you're getting used to listening closely, and you can now tell your timing isnt perfect. Like people said, metronomes and drum machines will help you out.

vindy500 · #13 09-13-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frugle

Can I please have some recomendations to fix my timing problem? one of the things I HATE about bassist is some of them can't keep time, and I really don't want to be a part of that majority.

fixed it for ya

Rob Palmer · #14 09-13-2006, 07:08 AM

Just a thought....

When you are performing a line, there is a natural tendency to focus on the detail of the phrases you are playing and rather than on the position of the beats and off beats. An example:

Play straight quarter notes for two bars and then, on the third beat of the second bar, put in an eighth note triplet before hitting the last note.

The tendency in early players (I have 26 years under my belt) is to focus on the notes contained in the triplet. The secret of good time playing here is to focus on the first of the eighth notes on the third beat of bar two and then on the fourth note of the same bar - in a nutshell, the triplet will sort itself out but you need to sort out the time. If you get this simple exercise right and grasp the fundamental idea, any line, however, complex, will be easier to execute within a given groove.

What you have to remember is that the relationship of your notes to the fundamental beat (one - two - three - four) DEFINES a groove, not the notes you play. Concentrate more on the quarter notes underneath your groove and less on the lines you are playing and you will feel an improvement, I promise.

What you are probably finding is that your playing has not deteriorated at all but you are hearing things that you weren't hearing before. That is a natural part of learning. That is why everyone thinks thay can play like the greats but neer get booked! Have you got any old tapes of yourself to listen back to (always a sobering process). You may find you have been doing it this way for years.

WARNING TO ALL - a metronome or click is a useful tool but it does not work unless you know how to listen to it and make your playing relate to it. Playing straight notes against a straight click is not that useful. Playing AROUND the click is much better. You need to ENGAGE with the click in a meaningful and musical way (yes it can be done and very effectively, Mr. Berlin).

Oh, and by the way, the problem won't be solved by any scale or exercise but by your ability to listen in totality to yourself and the music you are playing.

Hope that helps (if not, please come back to me on a private message and I will try to help).

NickyBass · #15 09-13-2006, 01:56 PM

There are a few ways to work with a metronome. Besides the obvious, one trick is to set the click really slow and each click is equivelant to a whole note. Now, count in your head and try to play only on the downbeat of 4. It might be easier to start where each click equals a half note. Then you can switch it around until you are playing an eight note only on the upbeat of 4.

jsbach1982 · #16 09-13-2006, 02:24 PM

+1 on playing with a metronome.

However, I highly suggest you look up Ed Frieland's "Metronome as Guru" exercises...they're extremely frustrating at first, but the results are far beyond what you can achieve by just letting the metronome click along on the downbeats.

-Jono

jady · #17 09-13-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frugle

Here is my observation, I feel like I'm wrapping my finger around the string and pulling it a little instead of plucking...but it is inconsistant.. I only do it sometimes..

This sounds more like a technique problem more than a time problem, if your plucking finger is wrapping around the strings then of course the timing of those notes will be off from the others. Try relaxing your right hand and fingers, let your amp do the work as far as volume is concerned. If I find myself plucking harder to get more volume I will turn up, thats what an amp is for.

You state that you know your off, and the tempo is fine in your head, its just getting botched in your fingers right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frugle

The timing problem is really noticeable in the beginning, and during when I got carried way during a chorus towards the end.

Again, this sounds like a technique issue. Your hands should be relaxed and move in fluid controlled motions. It is common to "get into it" in more intense passages but "getting into it" should never lead to hand/arm tension or loss of control. A lighter touch may improve your timing a bunch. If you play in a very light and controlled manner, you can dig in for more intense passages without digging in to the extent that you are losing your groove. I learnt a lot about economy of motion from a drummer friend of mine and it really applies to bass. Every extra bit of motion you use is taking away from your ability to play musically and quickly.

And for what its worth, your clip wasnt really that bad, I've heard A LOT worse. I know I always feel like Im grooving less than I am, its a hyper-sensativity thing towards your own playing. Just relax and the groove will come........

XTC · #18 09-13-2006, 03:40 PM

My teacher gave me this REALLY great exercise when I found that I just wasn't keeping the groove and timing like I should.
Try, at a really slow speed, to just play the string and then dampen it right away. Don't let it ring for a fraction of a sec. get your other finger on it just right before you hit the string. Don't use the left hand at all.
Doing this will learn you to; 1. get a better feel for the string, 2. Improve right hand technique.
And the result will be that you play tight and with control.

Of course, practise this with a metronome at a really slow speed ;D
Helped me out a lot.