I've got chops -- now what do I do with them?

[Swimming Bird]

I'm sure many of you have run into this problem -- we can do much more than we should in any given song. Oh sure, we try to work in little double-pops, thumb-upstrokes or 16-th note fills into our songs, but that isn't as satisfying as going full-tilt for an entire song. And let's face it, the song always comes first -- as it should. So were does that leave us -- is it simply the bassists fate to not play up to everything he can do? Should I just keep groovin' deep, solid and funky and bug my bandmates to do a 'Sinister Minister' cover?

[thewanderer24]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

I'm sure many of you have run into this problem -- we can do much more than we should in any given song. Oh sure, we try to work in little double-pops, thumb-upstrokes or 16-th note fills into our songs, but that isn't as satisfying as going full-tilt for an entire song. And let's face it, the song always comes first -- as it should. So were does that leave us -- is it simply the bassists fate to not play up to everything he can do? Should I just keep groovin' deep, solid and funky and bug my bandmates to do a 'Sinister Minister' cover?

You need to back up and remember that music isn't about chops or technique. Those are tools you use. Stop and think about any art you have ever seen. The goal isn't to show everything you can do in each piece of artwork.

The goal is to say what you are trying to say. Sometimes a rest is a much more relevent and powerful statement than a lightning fast 16th note run.

When you write or speak, do you always need to use the biggest words you know and the most complicated sentence structures in everything you say? Do you feel the need to tell everyone everything you know in every conversation you have? How do you think people would respond if you spoke like that??

Music is a language. Treat it as such. It has nothing to do with being a bassist. It's about being a musician. All musicians have to deal with the same issues of taste and restraint.

If you want to impress other musicians OR "lay" audience, play well. That means play the right stuff, tastefully, with feeling. Overplaying to try and show off makes you look and sound ridiculous in a band context, regardless of what instrument you play.

[JimmyM]

It seems you've learned every badass technique out there except one...subtlety. There's not one instrument out there that goes full tilt in every song. It's not a "bass thing." It's a "music thing." When someone in the band is going full tilt, the rest of the band usually lays back and lets him. If I'm doing something full-tilt on the bass, it would be considered stepping all over me for the guitarist, keyboardist and drummer to start going full tilt, too. And vice versa. You don't hear Vic going nuts behind Bela when he's soloing.

If you want to go full tilt every second in every song, my advice would be to start a solo project where you pay all the other musicians to never step on you and give you room to do whatever you want.

[Jumbotron]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

If you want to go full tilt every second in every song, my advice would be to start a solo project where you pay all the other musicians to never step on you and give you room to do whatever you want.

Totally. Maybe you could also post ridiculous videos of yourself rocking out on YouTube.

[ric1312]

If you really want to show off chops, learn to sing and write some solo songs. I see clips of guys with chops doing that. That way the bass by it'self isn't so boring for the listener and the number has a song/lyrics to keep them interested after you've exhausted all your wank, but you get to wank all over the place because you have to to make up for no drums and guitar.

[seanm]

It sounds like you would be happier playing lead guitar.

[Crazyeelboy]

Swimming Bird:

Congrats on working up the chops - just don't try to force them into songs. Pull out the chops for the right opportunities.

[Swimming Bird]

Originally Posted by seanm

It sounds like you would be happier playing lead guitar.

Low blow.

All things in moderation, including moderation. I'm just getting frustrated because I'm always getting shouted down in band situations. I'd leave, but I'd rather be playing simplistic rock and funk than nothing at all. I love countermelodies and all the cool things you can do with a 'normal' bass line, but it's just so satisfying to do something jaw-dropping, even if it's just once a show. Especially if it's just once a show.

Hell, I've taken my Big Muff off my pedal board cause it isn't useful in the contexts I tend to play -- don't make me shelve my thumb-upstrokes too.

[Charling]

well, you seem like you are happy with the fact that the song is about the song and nothing else, which is good. But I guess there are several points to consider...

1 - so you have chops, thats awsome, but take a step back and listen to you're playing, are you a super tight groove machine that can place exactly the right note at exactly the right point with exactly the right feel into any given song? Listen to you're favourite artists, even the simple ones, chances are they are flawlessly tight, and I dont just mean playing in time. This is as fun a skill to learn as chops, and believe me its allot harder!

I was (and still am, if im honest) a fairly licks and solo's based player, but I play in allot of bands that nead a solid as hell foundation (the two main being a hip-hop group and a pop group). I found thatwhen I disected my playing, which sounded great at 200bpm, I was lacking in certain areas. Normally the guys playing on favourite albums of ours would have practiced the material over and over, so they cant make a mistake and every note is perfect, but why should we not all be aiming for that all the time? any way, I guess what im saying is use you're feel and comfort behind the bass to turn yourself into THE bvassist everyone wants in there band, and knowing the rope chop wise is a great foundatrion to learn this.

2 - as for letting out you're skills, Im sure the members of you're band(s) would let you have a solo, perhaps worked into an existing song or as a seperate interlude to the set. If they appreciate you're skills enough then im sure they'd be gald to showcase them, even if its to say 'look at us, were so good we got THIS guy on bass!'

but be carefull to only solo at you're alloted point!

3 - get into jazz. learn the ropes, go along to a local jam, go nuts. The great thing with this is that you dont have to worry about you're band mates getting miffed, as its just a jam, but its a gig in front of a crowd where you can play every week if you want and you'll get a solo if the house band are good peeps. also, as you'll be walking most of the time you'll be doing allot of improvising, and often thats more than enough to satisfy you're frustration for wanting to play what you want. In my quartet there are tracks that I say 'no' to soloing on when asked, because the changes alone are exilerating me!

4 -as someone else said, do solo stuff. and gig it.

hope some of that helps!

[seanm]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

Low blow.

Sorry, it wasn't mean it to be.

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Check your chops at the door and play what's best for the music.

What I've always loved about certain players (not only bass), is that they play solid and mostly simple, but you know they can pull out the chops and kick ass at any moment. You have to save them for the appropriate time.

[jady]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

Check your chops at the door and play what's best for the music.

There is a lot of "anti-chop" sentiment in the bass world. There is nothing wrong with playing your butt off in the right time and place.

If you have badass chops by all means use them but put them through these filters:

1) will they fit in the pocket, as bassists, we live in the pocket, stay there, it's your home.

2) will it step on anyone elses lines, if so, it is not adding to the song, its derailing it.

3) is it stylistically appropriate, bebop licks in a metal tune are not really appropriate unless you are doing a bird/slayer concept album.

4) most importantly, does it sound right being there. not just to you, but to the audience.

The best "choppy" players I have heard have used double thumbing, tapping, harmonics, etc and made them sound effortless and simple (even though we know they are not). If your chops are being fully realized in the correct context, no one should really notice them but other bassists (ironic huh?).

Smallmouth_Bass, I intended no disrespect at all, I just used your quote as an example

[jwl]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

I'm sure many of you have run into this problem -- we can do much more than we should in any given song. Oh sure, we try to work in little double-pops, thumb-upstrokes or 16-th note fills into our songs, but that isn't as satisfying as going full-tilt for an entire song. And let's face it, the song always comes first -- as it should. So were does that leave us -- is it simply the bassists fate to not play up to everything he can do? Should I just keep groovin' deep, solid and funky and bug my bandmates to do a 'Sinister Minister' cover?

having chops takes work. having chops and playing simply takes confidence. if you have confidence, you'll play the right part. i'd rather see a room of hotties grooving to my bass part. i can shred at home. peace, jeff

[Chase_The_Bass]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

Low blow.

All things in moderation, including moderation. I'm just getting frustrated because I'm always getting shouted down in band situations. I'd leave, but I'd rather be playing simplistic rock and funk than nothing at all. I love countermelodies and all the cool things you can do with a 'normal' bass line, but it's just so satisfying to do something jaw-dropping, even if it's just once a show. Especially if it's just once a show.

Hell, I've taken my Big Muff off my pedal board cause it isn't useful in the contexts I tend to play -- don't make me shelve my thumb-upstrokes too.

I dont think the thumb up strokes are that great unless u are doing some Wootenesque solo prokect. U said ur band does funk, isnt that enough exposure for u right there? During a funk song u can kick it up a bit without it being too obvious.

[lemur821]

You'll need to get your band members on board if you want to play out. If you've got some like minded guys who like listen to each other (including you) show off, then there's no problem fitting it into the songs, as they're constructed with that in mind. "Play what's best for the music" is good advice, but there's no reason you have to play music for which showing off is never best.

If your band members aren't into that, then maybe you should consider playing in a group that is. If you've got time, there's no reason you'd have to quit your current band.

[jenich CZ]

You know...

Problem´s not in the band you play with...The problem is, that you have to get one more level up, so you can play difficult music, but non-musicians could understand it easily...

This is why Bela Fleck is like genius to me...his songs are like very difficult jazz wrapped in the thin paper of the pop-music.

Take a look at the Flecktones...there is always light melody that flitters above the odd time measures, hard licks or whatever...


Its about the groove and melody a housewife could whistle

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Jumbotron

Totally. Maybe you could also post ridiculous videos of yourself rocking out on YouTube.

That's funny!

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Originally Posted by jady

Smallmouth_Bass, I intended no disrespect at all, I just used your quote as an example

I agree with what you say too. If chops is what good for the music, then by all means, play that way.

The rules for me are:
1) Serve the song first
2) Consider the chops second

I personally prefer a mixture of solid and relatively simple and occasional spotlight moments.

That being said, it's nice to have the chops (I don't) to be able to play whatever you want. You don't want to be physically limited; so you can just let the music flow, whetever the style or technical difficulty.

[terrelli721]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

Low blow.

All things in moderation, including moderation. I'm just getting frustrated because I'm always getting shouted down in band situations. I'd leave, but I'd rather be playing simplistic rock and funk than nothing at all. I love countermelodies and all the cool things you can do with a 'normal' bass line, but it's just so satisfying to do something jaw-dropping, even if it's just once a show. Especially if it's just once a show.

Hell, I've taken my Big Muff off my pedal board cause it isn't useful in the contexts I tend to play -- don't make me shelve my thumb-upstrokes too.

You say you're playing simplistic music. I was curious what type of song's in the funk genre you're playing because, not to take anything away from rock music, but funk and RB is a bit more difficult to master as a whole, and maybe in this instance you might need to learn some more complex songs to keep it interesting.

[Correlli]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

I'm sure many of you have run into this problem -- we can do much more than we should in any given song. Oh sure, we try to work in little double-pops, thumb-upstrokes or 16-th note fills into our songs, but that isn't as satisfying as going full-tilt for an entire song. And let's face it, the song always comes first -- as it should. So were does that leave us -- is it simply the bassists fate to not play up to everything he can do? Should I just keep groovin' deep, solid and funky and bug my bandmates to do a 'Sinister Minister' cover?

Play how you want to play, not how someone else wants you to play.