jazz scales? not played bass in over a year

[cptn craig]

hey, long story short, its been nearly 2 years since i last properly played the bass, and the past 2 months i've been dying to get into it. my fretted bass is in the shop getting fixed and i'm on a fretless that has no electrics for time being!



but i was wondering if anybody could point me in the right direction to learn some jazz scales. I'm not a beginner, but it feels like i'm starting from scratch haha.



also been reading topics in the forum for a week, just joined and wanted to be a part =]

x

[mutedeity]

Basically, scales are scales, whether you use them in the context of jazz or rock or latin, there is nothing that really defines a scale as belonging to a particular genre of music.

I'm sure a lot of people will suggest you learn this that and the other scale, for example lydian, dorian b2, the altered scale and so on, but if you don't already have a good understanding of diatonic harmony to begin with, I would suggest that you start there and learn about how scales, modes, tertian harmony and so on works first.

Since jazz tends to have a lot to do with relating chord structures to melodies and visa-versa having a good working knowledge of the above is an important place to start.

[cooptroop123]

learn the modal series and your golden

[Stumbo]

Check out the following threads:
Reading Music Learn to read music
I need to learn how to read music for bass, how do i do it? Learn to read music
I need basic music theory help... Theory
Things every bassist should know? Scales and such

Welcome to TB!

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by cooptroop123

learn the modal series and your golden

Not really.

[cptn craig]

thanks for the links, i'm slowly learning the forum and found a seperate lessons section.

i stil have basic knowledge on triads, give me time and i can work my way around the circle of fifths.


just need brushing up and physical practise so bad. i can comfortably improvise on the blues and harmonic minor scales and thats it atm.

reading over the theory thread just now.

i have missed bass

thanks for the quick feedback!

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Not really.

Agreed, and I would go further by saying that learning the "modal series" is meaningless unless you understand how modality works. That comes back to diatonic theory.

[HaVIC5]

And modes in the pure sense aren't used in jazz. They're the basis for chord/scales and a vehicle for static (modal) harmony.

The point is, there is not such thing as a "jazz scale". Jazz comes from phrasing and application of a wide variety of harmonic and melodic materials. Reducing it down to a set of seven pitches is impossible.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Agreed, and I would go further by saying that learning the "modal series" is meaningless unless you understand how modality works. That comes back to diatonic theory.

This really should be a sticky.


Anyway

You can think in the diatonic modes but I prefer not to because it seems like over complicating things to me. On top of that, you're really just scratching the surface of jazz harmony with them.

+1 that there's no such thing as "jazz scales" but there are scales that are definitely beneficial to practice.

+1 on getting a good handle on harmony as well.

This should keep you busy.

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/p...-primer-4.html

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

This really should be a sticky.

I can't count the number of times I've posted that learning to play a C scale from D to D doesn't mean you've learned the modes....

[Boombass76]

Hm... interesting thread here.

I was once at a workshop with jazz guitarist John Abercrombie, and there was a guitar player who asked him about the "secret" to playing jazz?

Abercrombie replied that there is no secret. The he suggested checking out the chords for a standard tune e.g. Stella, and then take the chords one by one and find the notes within the chord (up to 4 notes for starters) - and then you "only" need three more notes to get a proper scale to play over that chord, etc... (in other words: learn your diatonics first, and then you can move on to 8-note scales, altered, etc.).

The guy replied by saying something like: "I've tried that already - it doesn't work! Now, what's the secret?"

Well, simply put: There is no shortcut to learning jazz. (sometimes I wish there were, though...)

[cptn craig]

thank you so much!

these posts, along with the links helps a lot.

and i'm getting my bass back on wednesday so i'l no doubt be studying everything mentoned in this thread.


again, thanks. x

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Basically, scales are scales, whether you use them in the context of jazz or rock or latin, there is nothing that really defines a scale as belonging to a particular genre of music.

Actually there are scales unique to Jazz - so the Bebop scale.

This scale was used extensively by Charlie Parker, although there was no common name for it until educator David Baker popularized the term bebop scale.

This scale is a mixolydian mode with an additional major seventh as a passing tone between the root and the minor seventh. This scale may be used over a dominant seventh chord with the same root as the scale. For example, C dominant bebop is used over C7.

Here's an example:

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I can't count the number of times I've posted that learning to play a C scale from D to D doesn't mean you've learned the modes....

and I can't count the number of times I've seen terrible advice dispensed about how the diatonic modes are the key to bettering your playing.

[j.a.e.r.i.p]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I can't count the number of times I've posted that learning to play a C scale from D to D doesn't mean you've learned the modes....

I totally agree. I was able to "play the modes" like you've said for nearly a year before I really unlocked "THE MODES" and was able to use them effectively. It was not at all something that happened overnight. Anybody can play a cmaj scale from D-D, not everyone can use the modes correctly.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

and I can't count the number of times I've seen terrible advice dispensed about how the diatonic modes are the key to bettering your playing.

Amen to that, too. Bottom line is there's a lot of snake oil out there....

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Actually there are scales unique to Jazz - so the Bebop scale.

This scale was used extensively by Charlie Parker, although there was no common name for it until educator David Baker popularized the term bebop scale.

This scale is a mixolydian mode with an additional major seventh as a passing tone between the root and the minor seventh. This scale may be used over a dominant seventh chord with the same root as the scale. For example, C dominant bebop is used over C7.

Here's an example:

No scale belongs to a genre of music. Scales are groups of notes. Some types of music might use a particular type of scale more than others. That doesn't mean that the scale is unique to that genre.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

and I can't count the number of times I've seen terrible advice dispensed about how the diatonic modes are the key to bettering your playing.

Well, the people giving that advice probably have the right intentions. The problem is that it's not about the result of learning the modes themselves but the methodology of learning about modality that is beneficial.

I think learning the diatonic modes can be part of the key to bettering your playing, but only because they are a way of learning how modality works, not because knowing a series of seven scales will give you the key to musical knowledge. You should be able to reapply what you learn about modality to any series of notes.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

No scale belongs to a genre of music. Scales are groups of notes. Some types of music might use a particular type of scale more than others. That doesn't mean that the scale is unique to that genre.

Well - tell me who else uses the Bebop scale then?

With examples!!

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Well - tell me who else uses the Bebop scale then?

With examples!!

Play that "scale" over an Afro-Cuban V-I vamp. Bam, Latin.