Just had my first lesson!

JackWhite · #1 03-26-2008, 02:47 PM

hey tb!
ive been playing bass for about 3 years now but never had a teacher. as i thought i might have acquired same bad habits i thought id give a teacher a try.

so i just finished the lesson and dont know what to think right now. he came here WITHOUT a bassguitar and no books and stuff. if i would not have a 2nd bass, he wouldnt have had one. so i got him mine. yesterday i sent him a link to a youtube video where i am playing "i was made to love her". he started his lesson by referring to this video and told me that i need to improve my lefthand technique (which is why i actually wanted a teacher - i knew i had some bad habits there). but now here is what makes me think. that guy plays DB too. so he told me to ALWAYS play 1,2,3+4 fingers

so eg: Bb - index, B - middle, C - ring+pinky.

isnt that oldschool and out of date? he said this would get my fingers to make balanced pressure on the fretboard. my thumb should always be where my middlefinger is on the front, like when im naturally holding a book. its hard to do in the lower registers but i think it will be worth it training this. but im just very unsure about the 1,2,3+4 thing.

he had no real concept. a few times he did not know how to move on and we just stood there and i repeated what he mentioned earlier while playing it on the bass. when my dad came in (they know each other from gigging) he started to talk with him for several minutes and i just stood there. then he wanted to continue but just repeated some stuff he showed to me before. i dont know what to think. no books used here, no reading, 1 practice example.

i think he didnt have a real ambition to learn me something because there was no real plan like "1st we look at your technique, 2nd i correct you, 3rd here are some examples you can practice". after about 1h 10 min everything was over and i handed him 35 € (about 50 $)

whats your opinion? should i get him again (i dont have really much money) or should i try another teacher? and please for heavens sake, tell me if the 1,2,3+4 is appropriate nowadays!

thanks in advance

jack

onlyclave · #2 03-26-2008, 03:02 PM

1,2,3+4 technique is not obsolete. I use it all of the time on electric in low positions out of habit with DB.

I wouldn't buy another lesson with that clown, though. There is a difference between teaching and consulting.

mothmonsterman · #3 03-26-2008, 03:28 PM

That sound terrible, and not worth 50$.

JackWhite · #4 03-26-2008, 03:37 PM

thx onlyclave and mothmonsterman.

the strange thing is that: after ive read so much here on tb about technique i practiced VERY much to get that pinky strong, and now this shall be "wrong"!?

yeah. all in all id say he did not show a really great attitude. he has the skills, but maybe cannot teacher. i dont know.

any more thoughts?

Andrew Jones · #5 03-26-2008, 03:59 PM

Talk to him. Any good teacher will at least put thought into a student asking how to teach them. He might say "Thats not me you need someone else" He might say Ok and come back next week prepared the way you wanted.

I find allot of what makes a teacher good to me is how we vibe. How I become inspired. Lots of people can show you the same stuff but the one that gets you going and putting in the hours should not be underestimated. Lots of teachers play for you, or tell story's or "waste" time in various ways. Try to get a feel for the big picture

That said it doesn't sound like he did that for you.

As far as technique (or any topic for that mater) alot of teachers/people talk in absolutes. Try to read through this. The knowledge is there for you to take if you want. There are many ways to do everything. Unless you feel they are reseptive don't swim up stream and question/point out options just absorb,learn and ultimately make the hopefully educated decision of whats best for you.

Aj

AlphaMale · #6 03-26-2008, 04:01 PM

1,2,3+4, is obsolete for EB.
It's a Double bass fingering thing. I really think you should get your money back honestly.

JackWhite · #7 03-26-2008, 04:12 PM

thx guys
@ alphamale: thats what i thought. i even have an instructional book in which it is told that this is DB and not really used on electric bass.

no we didnt really have a vibe. it seemed to me that i had to keep things moving and ask and ask and stuff. as earlier mentioned. there was no concept.. unfortunately.

i just want to learn proper left-hand-technique damnit :X

Scot · #8 03-26-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaMale

1,2,3+4, is obsolete for EB.

No, it isn't. This has been discussed to death on TB.

There are at least 3 fretting hand fingering systems which are commonly used and they're are all perfectly valid depending on the situation. You might even decide to play a whole line with only one fingering hand finger and shift up and down the neck (Walk Between The Raindrops - bassist Will Lee). Newbies get way too caught up in wanting to narrow things down to one approach. Learn many approaches and you will learn to utilize the ones that are best for each situation.

OP: Ask your dad not to bother you during your bass lesson. It doesn't sound like that was the teachers fault. If the lessons are to be at your place, make sure you have an area setup where you can have a private lesson without distractions. No big deal that your teacher didn't bring a bass to the first lesson.

In my neck of the woods, $50 for an hour lesson is reasonable and that wouldn't include analyzing a youtube video outside of that hour.

JackWhite · #9 03-26-2008, 04:59 PM

scot:
yeah i was a little bit mad at my dad, but the thing is, he just came in, and sat there and watched. didnt say anything. and then the teacher turned around and startet talking about good old times and guys they used to jam with. the thing is - as i have few money - i really wanted a lesson and thought about it more than half a year (really, thats true...) and now my parent's present for easter was this lesson. i was totally glad and thought this would be it, and finally i can improve my technique and stuff. and here i am sitting, DOUBTING what the teacher told me. thats not a good feeling.

Scot · #10 03-26-2008, 05:35 PM

Okay. I would still tell your dad not to come in and sit and watch while you're taking your lesson. That can't be helpful. I teach myself and can say that having a parent hanging around watching is rarely my preference. As well-intentioned as they may be (or think they are), they always want to talk and end up being a distraction in one way or another. Your time with your bass teacher is your one-on-one time and it seems like it wouldn't be hard for you to control that aspect of the lesson, unless your dad is insisting on being there.

Scot · #11 03-26-2008, 05:36 PM

BTW - which part is it that you're doubting? I didn't get the impression that he gave you any incorrect information.

JackWhite · #12 03-26-2008, 05:55 PM

i doubt the "ALWAYS just use 1,2,3+4 stuff" "oh.. thats just for the first few frets" "no here u should do it again" and e.g. i said im playing this lick on F and he played it on Eb. ok, this can happen. then he was thursty and took beer instead of water. stuff like that. the thing is, he REALLY can play (i think) but maybe teaching is not his stuff. its just that i didnt feel that i got tought here, it was more like. "look what im able to do... no no... just do it!" but there was - as often mentioned earlier - no concept.

i want to understand things. he didnt ask me what i wanted to learn and didnt even mention theory or stuff like that (which im really interested in) once he said "yeah and here u can play a dorian or a mixolydian" which is not really "basic" stuff i think, which he said he was going to do with me today. im glad i understood the modes though.

the main thing is im confused now. obviously my old way of approaching has some bad habits (which i know) but the one he showed me is something many people have said is out of date. even an instructional book i own says so. and as long as im not earning money i dont think i will have the pleasure to afford a new lesson.

onlyclave · #13 03-26-2008, 05:56 PM

Part of the problem of starting lessons with a new teacher is the teacher doesn't know where you are at in your musicianship and you may or may not (more likely) be aware of what you need to get from the teacher. If you've never had a lesson before and are for the most part self taught then you need lessons with a very low level of abstraction, ie "This is how you adjust your strap for perfect playing height" and "This is how you shift positions when playing 2 octave scales". As you study longer and become more self aware you can study with people at higher levels of abstraction. As an example I took lessons in just improvisation with a smoking tenor sax player for about a year and a half. Why a sax player? I don't need more input on technique, I need input and feedback on my improv which is the agreement I had with the guy. He didn't know how to play bass and I know nothing about sax but we both got something out of it.

Oteil Burbridge is advertising lessons with him on his myspace page, and for a rank beginner taking a single lesson with Oteil might be nothing more than starstruck superhero worship but for a more seasoned player who knows how to take a concept and twist it around several ways to understand and sythesize new information it will be worthwhile.

Someone else pointed out (I think it was Andrew Jones. What up PDX? I lived there for a while and studied with Ken Baldwin and Dave Captein) that you should interview your prospective teacher so you can get an idea of how much experience he has with different levels of players and you can also discover what it is you need a teacher to teach you. As it is, you don't know what you don't know.

Don't give up on bass lessons because I believe that the way to get really good at music is to find a good teacher and take lessons, practice religiously and effectively (noodling and jamming is not practice) and play with as many people as you can.

Scot · #14 03-26-2008, 06:07 PM

Good points.

steve66 · #15 03-26-2008, 06:07 PM

Just because your Dad recommended you take a lesson from this teacher doesn't mean you have to use him. A good teacher will first talk to you about what you want to accomplish with lessons.

you really need to be on the same page with your teacher. Weekly lessons can be expensive, so having a game plan to your progress is essential.

You have both have to click.

A good teacher shouldn't change your playing style unless there is something seriously wrong with it.

I would look for another teacher that offers 1/2 hr lessons and get right to teaching. An hour lesson is way to long in most cases when you new to taking lessons.

If you have been playing for 3 yrs, you probably know how to play already.

A good teacher should open you up to ideas that you probably wouldnt think of yourself.

You probably would be better off finding other bass players in your area that you can get together with and trade ideas.

Illbay · #16 03-26-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackWhite

...so he told me to ALWAYS play 1,2,3+4 fingers

so eg: Bb - index, B - middle, C - ring+pinky.

isnt that oldschool and out of date?

In a word: "no."

JackWhite · #17 03-26-2008, 06:26 PM

steve66 thats exactly it! my dad did not really "recommend" him. he just knows him from gigs and mentioned he is a good bassplayer (which he seems to be) - so i got him. but good player =/= good teacher obviously.

ive been playing for about 3 years now and have heard from many people that im quite good for the time playing. i just felt like having flaws in my technique, so i wanted to get rid of them. now i know fewer than before.

what I personally would like to get from a teacher is to show me ways to get rid of the bad habits and take me a step further in understanding theory (but the practical way) eg. here youve got a bassline thats Bb,A,D,G => this is Fmaj, so you can play Fmaj pentatonic over it... or Dmin pentatonic. or start from the C and play a Fmixolydian scale over it! stuff like that. right now that takes me very long to find out and is almost impossible to do "on the spot"

and money is definitely a point here. maybe 30 min lessons would be a good idea. could be. lets hope i can find a good teacher soon.

oh and yes, playing with others (better ones) is very important i know. but there are not that many musicians in my NEAR region. of course thats not the main thing why i dont have a band, i would travel a lot for a good band. but i havent made good experiences with this "hey, im searching a band"-stuff. never had a really decent drummer. one couldnt hold time, the other one destroyed the groove by smashing in a fill every 4 seconds. stuff like that. i know a great guitar-player but he has no discipline. i say "ok lets learn these 3 songs for the next time" - next time he has NOTHING. not one song. or he just doesnt attend the practice-session and stuff like that.

about a year ago i said i want to play in a band with better players or equal players that play motown stuff or funky stuff (james brown, EWF and so on). ive stepped down from that and now im saying i want a "decent" band, because all i want right now is getting experience and jam with others. thats the main thing about playing an instrument i think. using it in a musical band-context. and thats, what im NOT doing right now. damnit :P

steve66 · #18 03-26-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackWhite

what I personally would like to get from a teacher is to show me ways to get rid of the bad habits and take me a step further in understanding theory (but the practical way) eg. here youve got a bassline thats Bb,A,D,G => this is Fmaj, so you can play Fmaj pentatonic over it... or Dmin pentatonic. or start from the C and play a Fmixolydian scale over it! stuff like that. right now that takes me very long to find out and is almost impossible to do "on the spot"

I see what you talking about. I would recommend that you look at software like Band in a box. You can down load the demo for free.

You can punch in a chord and play over it. The software is does much more and is amazing.

To me the role of the bass is to outline the chords of a song. Its important to know the scales, arpeggios and modes. you do not need a teacher for this. you can build tons of bass lines from this. Another thing to learn is tetrachords for improvising over chords also.

I would focus on reading music, learning the fretboard notes hearing intervals, identifying them on the fretboard and learn the Circle of fifths and forths.|

You can research this over the internet.

JackWhite · #19 03-27-2008, 03:55 AM

i know the circle of fiths and forths. and right now i am learning what you suggested

good to see im doing "the right" things

lmfreeman9 · #20 03-27-2008, 06:39 AM

I've found that there are bassists who love to teach bass and bassists who are willing to teach for the money. The former usually has a space to teach, a structure already in place and other students. If you continue to seek lessons you might interview the prospective teacher over the phone first. Also, make sure he's a bass player and not a guitarist who plays/teaches bass.