Leading finger (3 finger tech) - best for beginner?

[manchild]

Hey folks, been reading a lot about 3 finger technique on here and on google, and was wondering if there is any consensus. Especially for a beginner.

Im an ex guitarist, and now that i play bass, i wanted to use the technique that is more popular for bass than guitar.

As im starting on this, after using a pick for so long, i was wondering if it wold be better to practice and learn a certain way ie IMR or RMI (IMRM - RMIM)

Is it really just down to peronal feel or is one more 'efficent' if learned properly?

I get the feeling that leading with the ring finger (middle for 2 fingers) is maybe more natural for how the hand seems to move? What do most pro's use?

Let me know what you think, and take the poll so we can see if there is any real consenses or not.



Cheers

[Bleu]

You might want to try keep your pick technique up to par, some context requires the pick (ie: a rock or metal gig). Otherwise there's as many ways to approach as there is player out there. As there is about 3 questions at hand (no pun intended): "How do you use your hand for string crossings?", "What is the most comfortable for you?" and "What seems more efficient to do?" (Look out a guy name Gary Willis his 3 fingers technique is really well thought out). And it's not forbidden to mix up things: Like using two fingers for some single note articulation passage and just use the RMI cycle for Iron Maiden/metal gallopping pattern; which is, by the way, usually what your hand tend to naturally do.

[manchild]

Thanks Bleu, yeah i have rambled on a bit and asked a lot lol - but just wanted a general idea, of course even 1 finger is enough on a ballad, i just mean in general for when 3 is needed.

[MistaMarko]

Your tendons open up from right to left, so three finger is more natural with your anatomy. Personally whichever way my left hand fingers go (if I'm fretting 2 4 5 with fingers I, R, P), then my right hand follows in that direction (I, M, R) -- this works best with me because my brain for some reason can't go the opposite way of the other hand. Not sure why, but I mostly always go R, M, I. Watch this video, it'll explain a lot to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CAGinmT9Po

[Muaguana]

Ironically enough, when I first started playing bass, after a couple months I was playing IMR. I never built up speed, since not long after I took lessons with a guy who taught me proper two-fingered technique. Then later on I learned to play RMI, and that's what I use in the few occasions where fast picking is required. The only reason it feels more fluid and natural for me is because that's the pattern I became fluent at; if I didn't see that teacher I'd probably be leading with my index finger.

The point is, I don't see why either would be more or less efficient than the other. There are a lot of techniques that don't feel natural at first (double thumping, 4 fingered picking, etc.), but if you stick with it and make it feel natural, you'll incorporate it into your playing and use it as intuitively as using a pick, in your case. It just takes time.

[dystopiate]

I think it's much less a matter of which finger you lead with, and more a matter of if your pattern is going to be RMI, IMR, or RMIMR. You can lead off the pattern with any finger.

FWIW, I like the RMI pattern (even though I never had a leading finger when I exclusively used 2 fingers) and most players I know personally use this pattern. I don't actually know anyone who does IMR, though I'm sure someone does. Steve DiGiorgio is well known for his RMIMR pattern, though I suspect it's somewhat less efficient and somewhat harder to learn for most people.

Also, I disagree that you ever *need* a pick. It's just a matter of if you like it, find it easier to get your sound from, etc.

[azureblue]

I used to lead with the index, until I got a blister on it and had to play with the middle two fingers the rest of the night and the next day.

[champbassist]

I like Billy Sheehan's explanation: he says that the natural way for fingers to move is RMI. Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okBPsjjvAz0

[nysbob]

RMI here... just more natural feeling to me.

[metallibass95]

I used to use only two fingers and was attemping stuff like 16th notes at 200+ bpm but anywhere near that kind of speed wasnt really needed until now. I recently transcribed Michael Angelo Batio's solo piece No Boundries to 4 string bass of course displacing some octaves just so it will all fit on 4 strings, and I made it all the way through the intro to the start of the arpeggio section. Already I was barely keeping up with only two fingers, so I am trying to adapt Billy Sheehan's technique he uses for fast playing such as that. I also have been studying many classical guitarist styles too and all seem to be similar to what Sheehan uses (of course without the thumb).


I have never heard of the RMIM technique on bass or seen anybody who uses it unless they are on piano. What I am attempting now is Sheehan's technique which would be RMI RMI RMI RMI. Galloping and triplets are very easy but what I am finding to be very very difficult is doing 16th notes with the 3 fingers. Basicly I am trying to get four notes out of three fingers and using the technique he uses each quarter note beat (or when he starts over each time) is on a different finger. Not only is that hard to do by itself but also I cannot get the notes to sound like an even four notes being played, instead they keep coming out sounding like triplets. So far its been pretty frustrating but I suppose in the long run after learning it I shouldn't come across any pieces of music that is physically impossible for my right hand to play.

[nysbob]

It takes a good deal of time and practise to lose the triplet feel. Be patient.

Oh, to answer the OP's question...it really doesn't matter which finger you "lead" with, because within the context of playing real music you're going to have to be comfortable with starting a phrase with any of them.

[Evanseveneleven]

RMIM RMIM is the technique used by Steve DiGiorgio sometimes uses. He does tend to use a lot of different picking styles though.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=57390989

You could try prmi prmi like Erlend Casperson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIcWeIP1qVM

Or you can try Franck Hermanny's alternate thumb technique (Scroll to 4.20)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojutPQWVsc

Personally I would suggest that if you already have the skills to play at the speed you want with a pick, your practice time would be better spent utilizing and perfecting that technique rather than learning a new skill that will only allow you to do what you already can do.

There is nothing wrong with swapping to a pick when you need to play fast, and a couple of great players who do this are Marcus Grosskopf from Helloween and Oliver Holzwarth who plays with Blind Guardian.

[Fergie Fulton]

For some more info and something to think about see the link.


http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=519267158

[Dave Wallace]

I'd say you need all combinations and permutations of fingers - it's not just a question of RMI or IMR; you have to look at how the fingers lie across the strings and what you need to use for string-crossing or even skipping. Some moves will be harder than others, so, as always, don't just practice the easy stuff.

Most important point, though, what I don't see anybody here mention, is the possibility of damaging your ring finger by asking too much of it too soon. Remember that a bass string is not like a guitar string and you will need to monitor your technique to avoid straining the joints and tendons. Chiefly, always keep a certain amount of bend and spring in the finger so that it is never locked straight out; I mean fully extended. If you play with your finger stiff like a stick, that is when the shock of the impact of the pluck movement stresses the finger joints directly. Your index and middle can probably cope with this as they get used all the time for all sorts of things and have the strength. Remember your ring finger is very vulnerable, and if you're coming new to this, I would say don't use it all the time. it takes a while.

Been doing this for a while and gone deep into it, as you may guess.

[taphappy]

RMI personally. Good practice atop this is RMIMI to run cleanly through from 3 to 2. Then work on 332. 322, every configuration. Atop developing coordination, you can develop some cool rudiment patterns that'll make drummers squeak. And our first job is to make sweet, sweet love with those hairy, sweaty bastards.

When I do a single four note burst, I do RMIM. Just a comfort thing. Then again, I always start with my middle, even when doing single finger work. Maybe it's my subconscious act of defiance towards humanity.

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

For some more info and something to think about see the link. http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=519267158

Nice article, good little video - should drop the volume of the background music by a ton next time, though, if not fade it out fully. Groovy tune - but it overpowers your speech, and it's a bit distracting when trying to listen to you talk about technique, then going "oo I like tha...wait, what'd he say?" :)

[WhiteKnuckles]

I don't really make a conscious effort to use 'x' number of fingers to play anything, it comes down to using the least number needed, but my plucking patterns always move from the outside fingers towards my thumb.

My middle finger is my '1', but if something would require more plucking, my ring would become the '1', then my pinky...though I'm glad nothing I'm currently playing requires any pinky action.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by metallibass95

I recently transcribed Michael Angelo Batio's solo piece No Boundries to 4 string bass of course displacing some octaves just so it will all fit on 4 strings

Upload video/audio clips as soon as you finish

[metallibass95]

Originally Posted by champbassist

Upload video/audio clips as soon as you finish

It will be a WHILE before I can do it, I have to pretty much master the 3 finger technique so my right hand can actually play it, thats not gonna happen anytime soon lol. I have the Finale file of what I have done so far if you or anybody would like to see I can send it via email.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by metallibass95

I have the Finale file of what I have done so far if you or anybody would like to see I can send it via email.

I myself have transposed it for the bass without a hitch. And I can play parts. But some parts are a little too crazy.

[metallibass95]

Originally Posted by champbassist

I myself have transposed it for the bass without a hitch. And I can play parts. But some parts are a little too crazy.

without a hitch? what do you mean? none of the left hand parts are giving me too much trouble, but its just the right hand I am really struggling with