Learning jazz

demented6th · #1 10-04-2007, 04:26 PM

Hi, I have been playing rock bass & 6 string for many years but now I am taking my 1st excursion into jazz (must be an age thing). I'm teaming up with a very experienced jazz pianist & drummer to do a few numbers at a charity evening in November. So, HELP ME PLEASE!! I've had a session with the pianist and seriously loved it, & he was very complimentary about my playing & sound (ancient Gherson fretless & Roland bass cube

, but did feel out of my depth. Basically I just can't work out what notes to play as the pianist is all over the place, and then wants me to do a solo!
So, are there any good tutorials on line?
Any good jazz electric bassists to look out for?
Right now I'm spending evenings playing?

along with Oscar Peterson on Youtube (he's not half bad!)
Cheers
Russell

DocBop · #2 10-04-2007, 04:46 PM

Good you're listening that will help you get the feel and phrasing. I would say get a book on Walking Bass like Ed Friedland's. That will give you concept to use for basslines and soloing both. Good Walking bass and beginning soloing are similar in note selection main the timing changes.

Walking bass you want roots on the one. Soloing no roots throw 'em away and don't start phrases on the the one. This is overly simplistic but start practicing it and it will help get you started fast. Later you do those things as passing notes and parts of long phrases.

Also listen to some Ray Brown he was a master of Walking Bass and any style when needed.

Tomservo17 · #3 10-08-2007, 10:29 AM

Yeah keep an eye open for that Jaco Pastorius guy, I hear he's pretty decent.

chaosMK · #4 10-08-2007, 03:46 PM

You are going to become a Cat!

jmcdan3 · #5 10-08-2007, 03:52 PM

study the charts the piano player is giving you. do you know which scale fits over a c#7? i assume that you do but i usually play scale patterns over a given chord in a walking style using eighth notes or whatever fits the tune. for soloing, play as you feel over the chord progression and keep a close watch on the changes.

Tony G · #6 10-08-2007, 03:56 PM

This thread fits me perfectly. I'm in the exact same boat. After many years playing funk/rock/jam style music, I've finally dedicated myself to do the jazz thing. It's all I listen to and really all I've ever wanted to do, but never had any friends that were into it.

demented6th · #7 10-09-2007, 05:22 PM

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'm lovin' Ray Brown's 'Summertime' on Youtube right now!
Russell

tgrant · #8 10-09-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demented6th

Any good jazz electric bassists to look out for?

Steve Swallow.

chicagodoubler · #9 10-10-2007, 09:00 AM

The. Only. Way. To. Develop. Real. Jazz. Ideas.
Transcribe.

Spend a couple years on Paul Chambers, Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Israel Crosby.

Fill several notebooks with transcribed walking lines.

You'll be surprised how much you can learn about harmony and jazz vocab just by writing down and analyzing quarter notes.

Guys who skip transcription always sound neophyte, and get vibed all to hell by the real cats. People can tell, and respect the hard work that goes into learning jazz the right way- by ear.

Given, there's alot of teaching mediums to help, but I don't know a single professional jazz musician who hasn't spent years transcribing!

demented6th · #10 10-12-2007, 06:03 PM

Hi
Sorry to be a complete numpty but what exactly do you mean by "transcribe"?

Cheers
Russell

[quote=chicagodoubler;4774249]The. Only. Way. To. Develop. Real. Jazz. Ideas.
Transcribe.

....

chicagodoubler · #11 10-13-2007, 03:50 PM

start with a simple paul chambers bass line, a sheet of manuscript paper, and a pencil.

listen to the first measure of the bassline.

sing it.

play it.

play along, making modifications where your ears didn't get it the first time.

write it down.

continue til you finish the song.

analyze the entire song, marking chord changes (from real book or elsewhere,) and be able to play it top to bottom. take special note of basslines you like, and chord structures where you normally wouldn't be strong. start putting together a notebook of lines you really like...

oldfretless · #12 10-13-2007, 08:29 PM

While transcribing is an excellent learning tool, imho it is not the only way to develop real jazz ideas. I would say playing thogh fake book changes can develop ideas as well as anything. If you are a professional and full time at it I would set aside time each day to transcribe. Jazz should be what is happening right now, writing down what happened 60 years ago may or may not be relevent.

basskopf · #13 10-15-2007, 12:42 PM

Second the idea on Ed Friedland's books, go to bassbooks.com, a great service which has all his books. Building Walking Bass Lines or the basic Jazz Bass books are both outstanding, very clear explanations, both with CD's to playalong with (you can cut the volume on the right channel, bass, so all you hear is drums & piano). Working through both these books has helped me tremendously. der basskopf

chicagodoubler · #14 10-16-2007, 09:45 AM

As I said before.

Other resources can be helpful.

But.

Ray Brown didn't have books.

Ron Carter didn't use fakebooks.

Paul Chambers- the only book he used was Simandl.

Real working professionals in the jazz world rely (and have always relied) on their ears for their vocab.

grovest · #15 10-16-2007, 01:36 PM

Russell-

I see you posted this recently (October). Your objective of a performance next month (November), including soloing, may be too aggressive. That being said, given the time frame, what I'd recommend is to establish with the pianist what the set list will be. Then find charts for that set if you don't have them already. And if you don't already have them, make sure to review the ones you do find with the pianist because it is highly probable his interpretation will be different than the chart you find. Now armed with the charts, find staff paper and work out some simple bass lines. Do this by starting the measure with the chord figure. That's note 1 of 4, assuming one change for 4 beats. Make note 4 a half-step (or so!) away from the root of the next measure. You now have half the notes done for this measure. For beat 3 and 4, outline something like the 3 or 7 to establish that chord's specific sound. Structure your lines to move up and down across several measures. If you do this you will have a "passable" bass line.

Given your first and follow-on posts, I think a solo might be a little ambitious. But if you are set on it, I'd start by memorizing the melody of the tune. If you play the melody with some personal interpretation, modifying some rhythm, or moving up past the 12th fret, you will again have a passable solo.

Let us know how it goes.

Sorax · #16 10-16-2007, 06:12 PM

Never forget the strength of the 1 - 5 sound.

Grinky · #17 10-18-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomservo17

Yeah keep an eye open for that Jaco Pastorius guy, I hear he's pretty decent.

I don't think Jaco ever played in trios... did he? He was more of a soloist, with the exception of Word Of Mouth Revisited. You may want to listen to the Pat Metheny Trio. =)

Also if you're thinking of taking up jazz seriously you may want to invest in The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine. It's a solid book to lay down your jazz foundation. Transcribing what you hear on the records you can get your hands on is an invaluable skill that you'll need for future use, but you also have to analyse and understand what you've transcribed. To do that, you're gonna need some solid analyising skills at your fingertips.

JimmyM · #18 10-18-2007, 02:24 AM

Jaco did a lot of trio work with Hiram Bullock on guitar and Kenwood Dennard on drums.

paradigm_shift · #19 10-18-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grinky

I don't think Jaco ever played in trios... did he? He was more of a soloist, with the exception of Word Of Mouth Revisited. You may want to listen to the Pat Metheny Trio. =)

He did play in a trio with "trio of doom" but even then he was more of a soloist

grovest · #20 10-18-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grinky

I don't think Jaco ever played in trios... did he? He was more of a soloist, with the exception of Word Of Mouth Revisited. You may want to listen to the Pat Metheny Trio. =)

Also if you're thinking of taking up jazz seriously you may want to invest in The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine. It's a solid book to lay down your jazz foundation. Transcribing what you hear on the records you can get your hands on is an invaluable skill that you'll need for future use, but you also have to analyse and understand what you've transcribed. To do that, you're gonna need some solid analyising skills at your fingertips.

Metheny's 'Bright Sized Life' was a trio with Jaco and Bob Moses.