Learning to pick - right hand position

[SlimT]

Hey y'all.

I've been playing 7 years and I've got the first two songs where it really does make sense to play with a pick - fast and punky and sharp lines. It's something I want to do and have been practicing.

I'm trying to figure out if a bit of advice I received from a guitar playing friend is worth continuing to do.

His advice was to rest my hand on the bridge and have my hand parallel to the strings (draw a line from the top of my wrist to my index 1st knuckle).

A diagram in Bass Guitar for Dummies shows the hand not on the bridge and the angle of the hand is more like 45 degrees.

Reason I'm asking is that if I rest my hand on the bridge, it's pretty hard to get above the 3rd fret and I'm 6'2" and have a pretty wide wing span. Also, certain bits of instruction may be hard to get used to, but pay off in the end. I don't want to miss whatever wisdom there is.

[musicmedic]

I play with a pick quite a bit, and while I'm not sure I know what you mean by "can't get above the third fret" the thing that I had trouble with was just holding the pick. The strings on a bass aren't nearly as "forgiving" or flexible as a guitar. I found that my right thumb was getting sore just trying to hold on to the pick. I use a heavy pick, try to relax my right hand as much as possible, and sometimes I hold it with two fingers and thumb if one finger isn't "cutting the mustard". Hope this helps and don't give up!

[johnvice]

I feel your pain as I have played fingerstyle and slap/pop for 25 years and have started to seriosuly use a pick within teh last year.

I see no benefit in anchoring your hand on the bridge. Your pickign hand should float freely. If you play finger style with your thumb anchored, this will be a major adjustment.

I prefer to pick relatively close to the bridge as it sounds better.

Start with the easiest songs to build up your technque and stamina before moving on to the 'fast and furious' songs.

[Thor]

I used one for 28 years. Try to find the heavy gauge
triangular ones.

You may find it beneficial to use your pinky planted onto the
body below the G string as an anchor if you don't like picking
at the bridge. You will need to learn to pick in other areas
besides the bridge in order to vary your attack.

Using the palm as a mute at the bridge is also a good
technique.

You may find playing some acoustic steel string guitar to be
of practical use in getting comfortable with pick technique.

I haven't used it in 4 years as I have the reverse situation,
I wanted to immerse myself in fingerstyle, and work on
right hand technique. I also play the 12 string, so my picking
has kept up. The 12 is very good for keeping up left hand
hand strength, especially for us older guys concerned about
arthritis and such. And it forces a certain technique for picking
with clarity and attack.

[jsbass]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gzwlPVqNKVs

Thats how to pick. I tell you man, its hard work at fast tempos.

[SlimT]

jsbass,

that's pretty much how I need to play for a coupla solos. pictures, thousand words and all that.

musicmedic,

I found myself doing the thumb and two fingers approach last night and found that a lighter touch both sounded and felt better. Good advice.

johnvice,

not anchoring on the bridge makes sense. I had to move closer to the neck pickup to get the tone I wanted for certain passages on the song while picking just in front of the bridge sounded best for the rest of it.

thor,

I've found the heaviest pick I've got (1mm) feels the best. Yeah, getting older. I'm 42 and have had lengthen my straps to keep from getting sharp pains in my hand and wrist here and there. I'm also a programmer, so I'm typing away all day.

The song that brought this on is Born To Run as covered by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. It may not be as fast as the Metallica stuff, but it's way faster than I can play fingerstyle and whoever the bass player is digs in pretty hard for the solos. This is gonna be fun (seriously, it's gonna be fun).

Thanks, y'all.

[johnvice]

Originally Posted by jsbass

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gzwlPVqNKVs

Thats how to pick. I tell you man, its hard work at fast tempos.

Like I said, start with something easy. This song "Battery" by Metallica is the furthest possible song from being easy !

That said we can learn alot from Jason Newstead (?) about good picking;

- He uses Dunlop Trinangle picks (I think 1.5 mm) and holds them with his thumb and two fingers.

- Most of the time he is picking downstroke. In a super fast song like "Battery", he is using some cross picking:up/down stroke combos.
( I don't know how he does that with really thick picks as they have no 'give' to them. I use Dunlop Tortex 1mm picks as they have the right amount of give.)

Before you attempt high speed cross picking stunts, try this;

1. Play the same pitch notes on your A string (say E at the 7th fret) as quarter notes down stroke with your pick at teh same tempo.

2. Play the same thing as up/down stroke striving for a consistent sound and volume level

3. repeat this on the other strings

4. build up speed

[pom134]

I've been playing with a pick for a long time and im into death metal stuff like decapitated, black dahlia murder and cryptopsy.

The first thing you should do is play primarily with your wrist. STAY LOOSE. when i start playing reallly fast stuff my hold on the pick is very light. I hold it between my thumb and the side of my index finger, alot of the time with my pinky and ring finger on the d and g strings.

obviously im on the right.

the second you tighten up you lose speed and get fatigued very easily. alot of the time playing fast stuff you have to conciously make sure you arent tightening up.

one of the hardest things to do is play really fast 16th note runs and switch between strings without dropping a beat. ive found to do this, you need to move your entire lower arm to get to the next string, while still only picking with your wrist. the idea of keeping your wrist on the bridge isnt going to work the second you try to do anything remotely fast.

that battery video is good, he is running a gallop (triplet isnt the right word) for most of it and that is a trick to do very fast. the first burst is down/up/down. but now your pick is below the string. do you bring it back of to start the down picking again, or do the next burst as up/down/up? its up to you, newstead prolly comes back up cuz he likes to down pick, i do the second method, you can play ridiculously fast gallops like that but it takes alot of practice.

another thing you run into alot is stuff like this


A|--5---4---1---5--5---2-----------
E|0---0---0---0-7--7-0-3--3-6-6-6
from novelty crosses by black dahlia murder. great song to practice on, has alot of fast picking between strings.

you have to skip strings back and forth real quick. with your fingers its not so bad, but on a pick this can be tough. some people swear by down picking, but its very hard and takes years of practice to do fast. i alternate pick, ill down pick the first E, down pick the first A, then up pick the rest of the E's while down picking all the notes on the A string. some people might say your tone will be inconstant, but when they say that give them your bass and tell them to down pick it.

really its all up to how much you want to practice, youll find out what works easiest for you, this is just what works for me.

[JimmyM]

This where I usually mention www.carolkaye.com to learn how to play with a pick and not get hand injuries, but every time I do, some numbskull writes in and says he doesn't get hand injuries and we're nuts. So the hell with it.

[xaristotlex]

I am 100% a finger player. I grew up in the 80's when Steve Harris was god! Anyway throughout the years in my efforts to stay true to my fingers I have come up with several resourceful ways to mimic the picking attack and speed of the pick players. Now I actually really want to use a pick sometimes. My problem is how do you keep the pick from spinning in your fingers? I am always turning the the point back to the strings at the end of songs. Not to mention the fact that is really sucks to finish a song using the side of the pic.

[JimmyM]

You buy a pick with raised lettering. Or you can do what Rick Derringer used to do...take a needle or pin, heat it up with a lighter, and poke holes in it where you'd grab it. Slick picks always rotate in my hand, so I can relate.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by SlimT

Hey y'all.

I've been playing 7 years and I've got the first two songs where it really does make sense to play with a pick - fast and punky and sharp lines. It's something I want to do and have been practicing.

I'm trying to figure out if a bit of advice I received from a guitar playing friend is worth continuing to do.

His advice was to rest my hand on the bridge and have my hand parallel to the strings (draw a line from the top of my wrist to my index 1st knuckle).

A diagram in Bass Guitar for Dummies shows the hand not on the bridge and the angle of the hand is more like 45 degrees.

Reason I'm asking is that if I rest my hand on the bridge, it's pretty hard to get above the 3rd fret and I'm 6'2" and have a pretty wide wing span. Also, certain bits of instruction may be hard to get used to, but pay off in the end. I don't want to miss whatever wisdom there is.

comfortable pickstyle can depend on how high or low you have your bass... if you have it about chest height, then maybe the 'hand parallel to the strings' thing your guitarist suggests could work... but it'd be extremely uncomfortable at lower bass heights because you'd have to bend your wrist...

guitarists pick that way for two reasons: they can palm mute the strings by dampening them at the bridge, and they get an anchor point to stabilise their picking

here's what works for me:

bass about crotch height... imagine a P-bass... well the pickup would be directly above ones nads

pick held between forefinger and thumb

rest your other 3 fingers lightly on the strings you're not playing... this will damp the strings and also act as an anchor.. if you're playing your G string (assuming a standard 4 string bass), rest your fingers on the pickguard... if you're playing D & G strings you can also place the heel of your thumb on the E & A strings to dampen them

that sounds complicated but it's not.. try it!

you can change wherabouts along the length of the string you pick, for variety of tone & envelope, but for me the sweet spot tends to be in between the 2 pickups on a Jazz, or just behind the pickup (bridge side) on a P-bass

always try to relax, be as economical with your movement as possible... and experiment with a variety of picks... some fit like a glove, some feel awful, some sound great, some sound crap...

[SlimT]

Hey, y'all!

I'm starting to get some comfort with a pick. The right hand position, as some of you have suggested, is taking care of itself based on the tone/attack I'm looking for. It's actually pretty cool.

It's not as difficult as I feared it would be. If I knew how to play something fingerstyle, I can almost play it with a pick, depending on difficult, of course.

The coolest thing so far, however, has been with my P-style bass. I've got flats on there, and picking with the flats sounds so fine. It seems sound difference between fingerstyle and picking is more on the flats than it is on the rounds.

Anyway, just totally grooving to picking those flats.

Again, thanks for you help!

Slim T

[Jherrera]

I only play with a pick (rare rare rare exceptions) but its due to the fact that I basically on play Zappa tunes from the Thunes, Barrow, and Fowler eras whom were all pick playes. (Arthur and THunes slapped sometimes and fowler and barrow played with fingers sometimes.) I find that the position of my hand depends on the tone I need to get. For fast things like Magic Fingers I rest my hand on the bridge as an anchor whereas a song like Dirty Love needs more attack and I will strum down and up without the anchor but with a little more force and snap to it. Mess around with diffrent things and see how they sound and feel.

[Thunderitter]

One of the best things for improving my bass picking technique was to play more six string acoustic guitar!

Playing bass I find that resting on the bridge is what I do most of the time (most of my pick playing is done on my Thunderbird) but you have to make sure hand is not anchored in one spot - you'll find it is useful to have a bit of vertical movement.

[johnvice]

I'm quoting myself *LOL*

Originally Posted by johnvice

That said we can learn alot from Jason Newstead (?) about good picking;

- He uses Dunlop Trinangle picks (I think 1.5 mm) and holds them with his thumb and two fingers.

Jason actually uses 1.0mm Dunlop TRangle picks (the blue ones)

Originally Posted by johnvice

I see no benefit in anchoring your hand on the bridge. Your pickign hand should float freely.

I have revisited 'pinky anchoring' and am I convert! Over time, I use more and more wrsit rotations and less and less arm/vertical movement. I find that pinky anchoring allows greater accuracy.

[rustinstrings]

Hello, been lurking here for quite awhile.

Been playing bass on and off for years, never professionally.

I've started to try a pick for playing metal after getting frustrated with 3-fingers approach. But alas, I'm too slow.

I'm currently trying to play RHCP "parallel universe" (seems like this tune is popular technique builder due to its long repetitious quality).

I can play the entire song if it is slowed down 20% (increase a single repetitious practice session to about 6 minutes using audacity - an excellent and free audio editing software), and I think that my hand is relaxed (can never be sure about those things).

But if I try it faster, say 15% slower than the original song speed, my RH gets tired in the middle of song and I start to mess up (pick stuck in strings, timing is off, have to stop before I hurt myself).

I'm currently anchoring my hand (similar to what pom134 and carolkaye on website tips say) by putting my fingers on the strings that I don't use - for example laying them on the G string while playing C on the D string. I can play scales like that by shifting my entire arm up and down. Skipping is still difficult but I don't need it now - I'd rather focus on a single note fast "tremolo" because this is what's blocking me on most extreme songs.

The problems I'm facing are:

1. Even though anchoring makes sure (I hope) that I use wrist muscles instead of arm or whatnot, I still get tired too quickly.

2. Playing notes on G string is awkward as I need to adjust my anchoring and put the pinky on the pickup. This wouldn't happen if my entire hand was floating without anchoring (I tried floating hand technique for few weeks after spending some time on guitar shredders forums: Even though Patrucci anchors his pinky on pickup playing 1/16 note sequences at 220bpm, there are more opinions and living examples against anchoring). I can't imagine keeping my pinky anchored that low on the pickup for approaching all strings, because that will hold me back when playing notes on E/B strings.

Would appreciate any inputs on the above, especially on establishing a better practice regiment for picking - I have no problem playing the same thing over and over for couple of hours, but I don't see any speed progress for few months now (and I would prefer a more efficient practice than 60 minuts of "parallel universe" - I want to leave bass time for doing other musical things, pop songs without a pick, for example).