left hand ache
Above is the original post on hand ache.
I have had some messages on this subject and some great questions asked as a result of my postings on this thread so below is the reply to some of the points raised.
I could not respond in person and the answer was to long to send as a reply so here it is as a post.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cire113 thanks for the response, but my goal is to reduce wrist pain and injury in the left wrist.. |
The first thing is to identify the cause of the wrist pain. You play bass amongst other things in your life I would assume? So look to them and see if there is a cause there, is there a probable cause to link any of your symptoms solely to the bass playing part of your life.
Now look at your age, age has a big factor in certain cases as when younger the body is developing so strain and injury can occur and not come to light till later on in life. As we age our muscles and joints loss elasticity, strength, lubrication and start to break down, as does the body, this is a process no one can evade or stop, all we can do is manage it.
What does your medical professional say about the wrist pain?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cire113 Is it always a good idea to play with your finger tips? |
It is a blend of both, if the notes sound correct then you are correct.
Hold your hand out flat, palm up. Each one of you fingers has 3 joints including the knuckle joint.
If you bend your fingers in from that knuckle joint your fingers will stay relatively straight. If you bend from the next joint up you will see that the tips of the fingers come in to the movement quite early.
This is how it would be on the fretboard if you decided to let the thumb come over the top or the neck. The reason the thumb does this has to be understood. That is because the neck is at the bottom of the V, that webbed area between the thumb and forefinger. This is a safe position of little stress in the hands. Now when applied to guitar (not just bass) the neck will now sit in a position where if the knuckle joint is used, access to the neck is gained. This access will use all the joints, ligaments, tendons, hand, etc, necessary for stress free movement.
Part of this will be a straight wrist, again a safe stress free position. When I say stress free that is in an anatomical sense not an application.
So slide the neck in to this V and see what access you have. Now straighten your wrist and see what access you have. You will notice your thumb now comes more over the top when you do that last movement ( or bring your thumb over the top to straighten the wrist ).
Below is a standard box shape chromatic exercise for one finger per fret, for movement across the strings.
B-C-C# D, on the E string
E-F-F#-G on the A string
A-Bb-B-C on the D string
D-D#-E-F on the G string
If you do this with the bass deeper in the V of the forefinger and thumb, the hand will have to turn to the right to accommodate the finger, which are now curling, using all the joints available to them as they access to the strings, especially the G string. this is not a problem the hand was designed for such movement so use it.
If we now put the thumb behind the neck and arch the wrist and play the same again we will notice much easier access and the hand does not need to turn to accommodate the fingers in the G string area.
So a better technique for playing bass?...., and I have to agree, the proof is there.
A better technique for the hands?,....... that is a big no..Why? Lets look at the two again from each prospective.
If you do the first exercise again and look at the palm of the hand, it stays quite flat, little or no valley appears for any length of time( It will run from the base of the thumb pad towards the forefinger). This area is the Carpal Tunnel area of the hand, where the median nerve runs, the cause of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS). The very fact that the hand is staying flat at this area is good. That means the carpal tunnel is under no or very little pressure at its sides. This is good for the hand as it is working in a manner that reduces the stress on the hand.
In the fingers the joibts all work taking the forces aske of them in joint line, in other words when the fingers curl, the point of strongest resistance. Try this put you guitar on the ground and with straight fingers on the bridge pull it towards you. Yo will find this difficult because tha big muscles of the arms must push the smaller parts of the fingers( the ligiments and tendons) on to the sufface to create friction and therefore tension to move it. The back of the finger which are small are under large ammounts of pressure from the larger arm muscles to achieve this. Now curl your fingers and do it. Because your joints are in line the task is easier as the fingers are working with the hand and and big muscles of the arm. This is effectivly the same as curling or arching your fingers when playing. Not all can do this some player are flat fingered...no problem, it maybe you have stronger joints so movement in these joints are for power rather than dexterity.
Lets do the second exercise. Before you even start you will notice the valley is now present in the palm. As the exercise continues so the valley stays and deepens, it never goes away. The side of the carpal tunnel are always under stress, they never get relief until playing is stopped. CTS is when the sides of the carpal tunnel area, which is cartridge, collapses and the tendons now put pressure direct on the median nerve. This is a simplified version of the process, but what surgery does is go in a free up this mess so the nerve is free again. That’s why it does not always work, it depends on the hands and the damage sustained.
So maybe the second one is not the best choice when we see the price that maybe paid. Remember this applies to healthy hands, your job or life style may have already affected this process to be on its way. As can injury and illness.
That's why it is not one way for all and what I have described is only one factor of many that need to be taken into account. That's why it is an application of a certain technique that is important, not technique itself just on it own.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cire113 ALso how do I keep my left wrist straight... |
See above, it is not a criteria to keep it straight but let it do so if it wants to, as in when access and dexterity of movement are not necessary.
You play blues, try playing help me by Sonny Boy Williamson which is in F with an arched wrist full access technique, then ask why? Straight wrist and let the fingers do the work will do it better and safer.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cire113 What is so bad about placing my thumb on the neck.?. |
Its not....... it's the application that will determine how bad it is, i.e.
how long, how much pressure, how often, what positions.
when i say pressure i do not mean squeezing presure i mean the presure to push the stings down. As mentiond previous if you fingers are straight, you are using pressures and forces the hand was not designed for, if your joints are in line( for a majority of the load) then this is better. Let the thumb move to support the fingers if it wants. I read so much about thumbs and it position that are pure myth. Many players can play without the thumb on the bass if the wanted, so it can't be that important...can it? Then the answer is why would you?..after all it is easier to let the thumb get involved some how.
Many top hand surgeons believe the thumb is the culprit to many hand problems here's a link to Dr Bob Markison perhaps one of the top 5 in the world, and he is a musician.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.12/mccarthy.html
And this to Dr. Ian Winspur
http://www.sciandmed.com/mppa/journa...83&article=935
Who has written more on such conditions than anyone i has studied. Remember these are correctly trained musician for the instruments, but still problems occur.
There are many more problems that are felt in the fingers that have nothing to do with the hands. These referred symtopms are felt in the fingers because that where the body has some of the largest collection of nerve endings as well as the most dense. This is why we feel presure, hot, cold, pain, touch, etc. so it is not unusual for the brain to pick up sensations that are not in the hands but attribute them there. Def Leppard drumer Rick Allan who lost his arm in a car crash often complained of ichy fingers or a cold hand on the side where he lost his arm, its just refered sensation.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cire113 I play blues and Funk...
any ideas |
Look to the greats and incorporate all that is good about their playing that you can apply to yours with safety. Remember its about building a technique not going to one.
Look at me, I play a 57 precision, tuned a semi-tone down, with heavy flatwound strings( E-120 to G-60) with a very high action. If you tried to play that bass it would injure you, you do not have the strength to play it safe. But some reads my specs, watches me, and listens to me play and decides I want do that, will think that’s all they have to do, is copy me because I can do it.
It took me all my playing life (35+ years ) to achieve this standard of fitness and technique, what makes someone believe that after a year or so they can do the same? There in lies the problem people watch player that have taken years to reach a standard in their playing, make it look effortless and other believe they can step in at that level when the can't.
Come back with some more questions which is what this will ultimately do LOL
All that have said is written with authority the facts are out there that is why they must be collected, tested and applied or dismissed. All medical data is correct at this time in science and our understanding of it.
/ 
I mentioned the Adam Nitti view earlier, so that fits in with that thinking.
