Left hand pinky..

[makanudo]

Hello TB, I've been having problems with my pinky since well ever maybe.

I have been playing for around 5 or 6 years now but now i'm really concerned. You see, my left hand works fine, i am no virtuoso, but when using my pinky it works just fine, however i find that when im doing pentatonics, or using first and ring finger, my pinky seems to just pull out and curl into my hand until it is called to actoin again.

Any advice, tips or exercises to help with this?

greatly appreciated

[Fergie Fulton]

This is not really a physical or technique issue, it is actually a desirable position for it to take rather than have it away from the palm when not being used.

Most players struggle to develop this use in the Ulnar side of their hand, with the opposite of what you have, in as much as their little finger tends to "fly out" from the palm when not being used.

Check out the link, it shows some good basic exercises and stretches to help keep the hands and fingers in good condition.
They give the hands and fingers a use in the range of the movement we tend to neglect, or forget, they have.
In modern life our hands are about closing, griping and holding movements, rather than opening based movements.
So our hands will suffer because we are predominantly using one range of motion (the closing of the hand and fingers to the palm), so we can develop a griping action or a fist based action.

Playing bass is as much about lifting the fingers away from the fretboard as it is about putting them on, so the need to develop the opposite motion to what we predominantly use in daily life is more so for a player than others.....after all the fingers have to lift off the fretboard in order to move to new notes.
That lifting off motion is a different set of muscles being used, (muscle work together in opposing pairs) so if one set of those opposing pair of muscles can develop to dominate the other side so the hand is better at closing rather than opening, so in fact you find it easier to close or curl the fingers than you do to lift or open them...and as I said you have to lift them to move the fingers to play new notes or control muting.

I call this the "crocodile jaw effect", because a crocodile has a jaw that has great power in closing and holding but is weak in opening. This is showing when they are being handled, their jaws can be held closed or taped closed with minimal effort.
Because the larger more powerful muscles used are in closing the jaw, they dominate the smaller weaker ones that open it, so a crocodile has a powerful bite that can do a lot of damage, it can clamp or hold on to prey with ease....but only if it can open its jaws in the first place in order to close them.

Check out the link, about 2.10 shows exercises to develop finger motions.

Hand Stretches and Exercises for warm ups/downs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_FZichHw1w&sns=em

In this link it shows and explains about why lifting the fingers is as important in playing as putting them on is.

Co-ordination and articulation
http://youtu.be/npti40xgb84

[Mushroo]

The simple solution is to avoid the use of the 3rd finger.

Most of the time, I use my 3rd (ring) and 4th (pinky) finger together as a single unit. They support each other and are very strong when working in tandem as is the natural tendency of our muscles and tendons. (Don't believe me? Relax your hand palm up on the table. Curl your pinky into your palm and watch what happens to your ring finger. Now flip your hand palm down and try to lift your ring finger off the table; it feels kind of weird, doesn't it?) This is similar to the 1-2-4 Simandl technique that upright bassists learn.

For the times when you must use 1-2-3-4 fingering (it does come in handy sometimes for certain more technical genres of music) the best exercise I know is "left hand permutations" as described here: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...mutations.html

CAUTION: I do not recommend 1-2-3-4 exercises on the lower frets if you are a new player, if you have small hands, if you have any pain or repetitive stress, or for more than a few minutes a day. Look at the photo of the guy's hand in that link above and tell me whether his hand and wrist look comfortable and relaxed?!? Start around the 8th or 10th fret, and then *gradually* over time (weeks/months) work your way down to the lower frets until your body tells you that you can go no further. I recommend that you primarily use 1-2-4 fingering in the lower frets, stretching out to 1-2-3-4 only as you feel it is necessary for technical chromatic passages and so forth. Keep in mind many of the most difficult classic bebop jazz bass lines were recorded with 1-2-4 fingering.

[Ric5]

I find that bass players with big hands don't use the little finger very much. Watch Chris Squire for awhile, he does octaves with the 1st and 3rd fingers beacuse his hands are big. Players with smaller hands tend to use the 4th finger a lot more and use the 3rd finger less.

For some people the 3rd or 4th finger use is a matter of ergonomics.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

The simple solution is to avoid the use of the 3rd finger.

Most of the time, I use my 3rd (ring) and 4th (pinky) finger together as a single unit. They support each other and are very strong when working in tandem as is the natural tendency of our muscles and tendons. (Don't believe me? Relax your hand palm up on the table. Curl your pinky into your palm and watch what happens to your ring finger. Now flip your hand palm down and try to lift your ring finger off the table; it feels kind of weird, doesn't it?) This is similar to the 1-2-4 Simandl technique that upright bassists learn.

For the times when you must use 1-2-3-4 fingering (it does come in handy sometimes for certain more technical genres of music) the best exercise I know is "left hand permutations" as described here: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...mutations.html

CAUTION: I do not recommend 1-2-3-4 exercises on the lower frets if you are a new player, if you have small hands, if you have any pain or repetitive stress, or for more than a few minutes a day. Look at the photo of the guy's hand in that link above and tell me whether his hand and wrist look comfortable and relaxed?!? Start around the 8th or 10th fret, and then *gradually* over time (weeks/months) work your way down to the lower frets until your body tells you that you can go no further. I recommend that you primarily use 1-2-4 fingering in the lower frets, stretching out to 1-2-3-4 only as you feel it is necessary for technical chromatic passages and so forth. Keep in mind many of the most difficult classic bebop jazz bass lines were recorded with 1-2-4 fingering.

That is pretty much the way I play. I don't use the 3rd finger very much. I arrived at this method without really thinking about it. It seemed the natural and best way to finger the bass with my left hand.

[phangtonpower]

+1 on not using your 3rd finger. I learned how to play upright for a year in high school. That's the way I was taught, to use the 3rd and 4th fingers at the same time, and I transferred that technique when playing electric. I've only recently been trying to use my 3rd finger more often after 15+ years of playing.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by phangtonpower

+1 on not using your 3rd finger. I learned how to play upright for a year in high school. That's the way I was taught, to use the 3rd and 4th fingers at the same time, and I transferred that technique when playing electric. I've only recently been trying to use my 3rd finger more often after 15+ years of playing.

Confused...... what makes your situation so different now that you feel you can recommend to others not to do something you are trying to do yourself?

[phangtonpower]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Confused...... what makes your situation so different now that you feel you can recommend to others not to do something you are trying to do yourself?

I still mainly use 1 2 and 4, but I've also done so higher up on the fretboard. It works fine, but just feels a little cramped.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by phangtonpower

I still mainly use 1 2 and 4, but I've also done so higher up on the fretboard. It works fine, but just feels a little cramped.

Great stuff, but this is a point in fact. If you do not develop the use of all fingers you can never really tell how it will benefit your playing and also the health of your hand.

There are plenty of people out there with opinions on how using 1-2-3-4 is bad for you......because it was bad for them, but that is because they never learned to use the technique correct in the first place.
Use of 1-2-3-4 is about when to use it as much as how to use it......saying "don't" is .......well frankly stupid.

I, and many others, have used 1-2-3-4 all out playing lives and not had any problems relating to its use, because we learned how how and when to use it, as well as when not to. The more you use it the stronger it becomes, but that use has to be a practical use.
Think on this, the longer I run the stronger I get. The longer I lift weights the stronger I become? The longer I play the stronger I become?

Well yes, so long as the conditions and practicality of use are in place...running for longer will make you tired, so in effect weaker, as will lifting weights for longer, and playing bass for longer.......periods of time. So 1-2-3-4 use is incorporated into our playing, it is not a techniques we have to strictly adhere to.
The conditions of its use are simple, it is minimal wrist angle, correct flex in the all fingers, and the least amount of strain to the hand.

Of you look at the exercise and warm up video you will see that there is an exercise to help develop these points.
From 2.10 onwards it is about addressing these issues, the finger spread and hand joint roll exercises "remind" us of those range of motions and help us to tone and define them.
So if you have to spread your fingers they are in a better condition to do the task, so you as a player get the benefit of the added dexterity in your playing when needed.
You can do the exercises and never have to use 1-2-3-4, so you get the benefit of the use but without the added strain of application.
Some of the exercises I use and teach can do physically in less than ten minutes what two hours of constant playing can do.....but the advantage is wear and tear is kept to a minimum not a maximum......like I said doing things for longer does not always make us stronger, it can tire and weaken us, making damage and injury more likely rather than un-likely.

Any questions on any of the pints I have raised post them here and if I can I will answer them...or PM me if you want a personal reply.

[Russell L]

I play 124 generally. 3 comes in when needed. And, when spanning three frets it's all 14. 2 comes in when needed there when going chromatic. The whole idea of 124 makes your hand much more relaxed.

[makanudo]

I use all four fingers on my left hand. I have pretty big hands and my left hand stretches quite a bit actually, but my main problem is still my pinky curling into my palm and behind the fretboard when im using only the index and middle fingers.