Left hand technique?

[peaveyuser]

Originally Posted by Cygnusx2112

Sorry about that Peavey. I can pull off that exercise that you posted slowly (because I've only just begun to play scales), but I can pull it off!

||------------------|-----------------|-----------------|
||o-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|
||o-----2-----3-----|-4-----3-----2-2-|-----2-----3-----|
||--0-1---0-1---0-1-|---0-1---0-1-----|-0-1---0-1---0-1-|

|----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|
|----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|
|-4-----3-----2--|-----2-----3-----|-4-----3-----2-2-|-----2-----3-----|
|---0-1---1-0----|-0-1---0-1---0-1-|---0-1---0-1-----|-0-1---0-1---1-0-|


thats a great one, just start slow and go faster.

Also

G|-------------------------------|
D|-------------------------------|
A|-----------------------------5-|
E|-0-3-0-3-5-3-5-3-6-3-5-3-6-7---|

[Marcury]

Mutediety above said alot of what I will say, but perhaps it's worth saying again and adding some so here goes:

I'm sure you can find lots of examples of people putting their thumb over the fingerboard. Entwistle as an example had huge hands so even with his thumb on top of the fingerboard he had plenty of reach. He also used axes with fairly thin necks which also would allow more reach and make thumb over neck a less egregious habit (yes I realize you are playing a Geddy Lee Jazz). But without trying to be outrageous I look at his left hand technique and though it worked for him I think most of us mere mortals would be crippled after a few years of playing like that.

I can only speak from my experience and over the years as I have changed my left hand technique to what I'm suggesting to you I have found that I have less pain, I can play longer without fatigue or cramping and I can play faster. Many musicians have chronic arm and hand pain because of poor technique, personally I have conquered much of mine but still have a ways to go. I can't tell you for sure whether any of the guys you mention suffer from pain or limitations because of their thumb over neck, but I have my suspicions.

Having said all that we're talking specifically about you and from what I see it is causing you problems. Sitting isn't really an issue, we all play sitting as much or more than standing. I tend to play cleaner sitting, but in most playing situations I do stand.

You didn't mention that you have CP before and I do imagine that that has something to do with the tension I see in your hands. But whether or not that is the case you mention pain from holding your hand in suggested positions on the neck. Is it sharp pain, is the pain there while doing it or after, is it in the muscles or does it feel like it is in the bones? A certain amount of pain is to be expected when stretching muscles in a way they are not used to. If it goes away quickly it is probably just discomfort. If it lingers or is sharp then that is a problem.

You opened this thread asking how to get better reach on the E and A strings and overall regardless of how Big Dollar guy a or b does it, what has been posted here has been found by most players to be the best way to get there and not develop tendinitis, Carpal Tunnel or other major problems down the line.

The best advice I can give you is that changing the technique you (we) use is a long and slow process and needs to be be approached slowly. I mean this literally, do all motions slowly, one of the paradoxes of practicing is that the slower you practice something the easier it gets to build speed and accuracy.

[Marcury]

Originally Posted by Cygnusx2112

Anyways, my point is, I seem to not be experiencing any limitations with the way that my hands are placed, and the minor ones (like that one chord in Combat baby on the E and A strings) I can work on. I find the way I play to be comfortable. Here's a question - and I don't mean to be rude by any stretch - if I had given you guys just the audio, would you have noticed a difference in my playing, not knowing how I looked when I played it?

I just noticed this, must of gone up while I was writing the last post. Now Im confused, if there is no problem then why did you open this thread?

[Cygnusx2112]

With the way that I play my basses, I have no discomfort in either of my hands, save for some fatigue, while playing something by Muse like Thoughts of a Dying Atheist, or Hysteria (see here for a snippet, just audio though, tell me what you think.) That song (TOADA) is fatiguing on my right arm but it is getting a lot easier to play because I am building up muscle there. I do not think that the CP has anything to do with my hands as of it affects my legs mostly (if not all.) I may end up changing my technique to the one suggested here down the road, perhaps without even realizing it.

I have one question though. If I go out into public, playing the way that I do (visually, not by auditory senses) will people go "ooohhh...he sucks, look at his thumb and pinky!!" I should hope not, because they came to hear me, not see me right? But still...

[Marcury]

Originally Posted by Cygnusx2112

I have one question though. If I go out into public, playing the way that I do (visually, not by auditory senses) will people go "ooohhh...he sucks, look at his thumb and pinky!!" I should hope not, because they came to hear me, not see me right? But still...

No, but you posted a query about it being a problem and people have responded to that.

[Cygnusx2112]

In retrospect, it's not really hindering my playing that much at all. I can do it now, as a matter of fact, playing the same way I always have. That's not to say that this thread was pointless though, it does have a lot of relevant info for me and other people as well.


It did seem to come off though like everyone is telling me that I am certainly playing the instrument the wrong way. My way seems to work for me and other people as well, apparently.

No hurt feelings though?

[user101]

it's not wrong, just that by not using one finger per fret you will reach a point in your playing where you won't be able to advance anymore because stretching a finger is definitely faster than moving your whole wrist. And you can stretch further if your thumb is somewhere in the middle of the neck instead of over the top because your fingers will be able to curl better and not unwantedly mute other strings. On the other hand, if you feel you have achieved all you have wanted to in your playing, then there's no point learning anything new rather just keep practicing what you can do already to improve it.

So all of the posts here really only refer to a better way of doing things and not that your technique or your way of playing is absolutely forbidden. I personally don't stick to any rule 100% of the time when i play but i do practice as many as i can so that i get more flexible to be able to adjust to any style of playing.

PS: moving your wrist is also important so don't totally unlearn it too!

[Cygnusx2112]

Originally Posted by user101

it's not wrong, just that by not using one finger per fret you will reach a point in your playing where you won't be able to advance anymore because stretching a finger is definitely faster than moving your whole wrist. And you can stretch further if your thumb is somewhere in the middle of the neck instead of over the top because your fingers will be able to curl better and not unwantedly mute other strings.


So all of the posts here really only refer to a better way of doing things and not that your technique or your way of playing is absolutely forbidden. I personally don't stick to any rule 100% of the time when i play but i do practice as many as i can so that i get more flexible to be able to adjust to any style of playing.

PS: moving your wrist is also important so don't totally unlearn it too!

I would have to agree with this. That's why I am learning scales. My wrist as it is is very comfortable, and from plying the way I have for three years now, almost a straight three years, too (and I mean that, I play EVERY day.) I have not noticed carpal tunnel syndrome or any other pain in my fingers, or wrist. I will occasionally use more than my index finger (actually, the way I play is using both my index and bird flipper on the same fret, oddly. It's very comfy for me.) I do not only use those fingers though. I have caught myself using my pinky more frequently than ever this past month, actually. I am very happy and enjoy playing these instruments the way I do right now.

one of my favorite things to do when I am jamming to tunes (as an example. Can be obviously played from any root note on the bass):

-------------------

-2-------2---------

-----4-------------

-------------4-----


I like doing that, sorry that I suck at writing tabs, but that's something I enjoy. I also enjoy running up and down the board playing octaves. That's fun too


I'm gonna keep rockin' though and thats whats important right?

[Marcury]

Originally Posted by Cygnusx2112

Hey guys, I was wondering what I could do to improve my left hand technique.

OK, now I get it you didn't want the above, you wanted to hear how great you play and how you don't need to change anything. Great, you play just like Entwistle etc. Sorry I wasted my time!

[Cygnusx2112]

You didn't waste your time. I will still work on the stuff that you posted, so what you talked about isn't irrelevant at all to me. It's very helpful. The only reason that I got mad (slightly) and came back with these guys like Chris, Geddy and John was because I thought that you guys wee saying something like "oh, yeah those guys can't play bass because their hands are not the way that we position ours." I realize now that that isn't what you were doing. In my mind, you weren't giving me advice on how to play it "better" by my standards, just a different approach. Is that a fair statement? I guess what I should have asked was if my technique was a bad one in comparison to Chris Geddy and John, as of those three guys right now are my inspirations for playing.

I'm sorry Marcury, I didn't mean to come off as "oh, I'm right and your wrong." Sorry about that.

[Marcury]

I appreciate your answer. No one was saying those guys can't play. There is a difference between technical prowess, musicianship and technique. Entwistle for example was a genius and his technique worked for him. But that doesn't make it good technique for most of us. For better or worse there are those whose musical output is extraordinary in spite of their less than excellent (or correct) technique and those who have nothing to say even though they have superb technique.

What you have to keep in mind is that if you post a video and say I want help improving my technique, people are going to take that seriously and analyze what your doing accordingly. As I said before, Entwistle's technique worked for him, but there is a difference between emulating an influences technique (how he physically approaches the instrument) and his music (what notes he plays, his timing and rhythmic accents, his tone and overall aesthetic) are very different.

The point to developing better technique is to make playing easier and to avoid physical injury so that you can become the best player you possibly can be. There is some subjectivity to it but not a lot.

BTW had you asked the question as you state it above, I would still have answered pretty much the same way. I've spent years working to break out of habits like putting my thumb over the top of the neck and it has improved my playing immensely and also as stated before helped me end pain that was affecting my playing and enjoyment.

Bottom line do what works for you, but since your young and haven't been playing that long it's easier to make changes now.

Good luck with it and who knows maybe you'll become one of those "big dollar guys".

[Cygnusx2112]

I appreciate your reply, a lot. Thanks Marcury.