Lessons vs. Self Instruction

[Euphony]

I'm curious, what do you think are the pros and cons with both? Is it more impressive when someone learns by him/herself?

I'm going to start lessons soon so I'm interested in what others think.

[Asher S]

Originally Posted by Euphony

Is it more impressive when someone learns by him/herself?

It's impressive when someone can play with passion and fire.

A good teacher always trumps exclusive self-instruction. A common misconception is that lessons usurp self-instruction, but in actuality lessons empower self-instruction.

[James Judson]

What is most impressive is what you play not where you got it from.

I reccommend lessons cuz you will advance quickly. You will not develop as many bad habits. A second opinion from an advanced player is invaluable. Don't forget to fire your teacher and hire a new one to get a more rounded perspective.

I reccommend self teaching cuz its cheaper and a well trained ear in invaluable. With that said you will not know what your doing making it really hard to communicate with other musicians.

The best musicians have a heavy dose of both ear training and music theory.

[ausf]

End result is all that matters, doesn't matter how you got there.

A good teacher will ensure good habits and be able to correct and/or point out things that may take you years to learn on your own by trial and error.

A bad teacher will ruin your enthusiasm and/or give you lousy habits.

Learn how to read from the get go. It really sucks to have to go back and do it when you are proficient. Use your ears and listen to a wide variety of music, whether it's your favorite or not.

I learned on my own, well before the internet, DVDs of any of that. When there was only Mel Bay. After a few years I took lessons to learn theory and had a wonderful teacher, but it was a real drag because my hands where far and away ahead of my brain. Let them develop together, whether on your own or not.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Euphony

I'm curious, what do you think are the pros and cons with both? Is it more effective when someone learns by him/herself?

I'm going to start lessons soon so I'm interested in what others think.

IMO, the first step is to worry more about competence than impressing others. One of the virtues of a qualified teacher is the ability to provide objective feedback to help develop good technique; I've seen hundreds of self-taught players with ingrained bad habits that could have been avoided with effective instruction.

If you want to be better than someone, be better than you were yesterday!

[Origin]

I think they complement each other heavily; one existing exclusively misses out on the other, etc. I'm self-taught, but I taught myself based on my influences, watching how they played, trying to understand how they went about/created what they play, stuff like that, which I suppose is sort of learning from a teacher haha. Learned keys, modes and stuff from my music teacher so that's taught. Of course my older brother started me out in the first place, so I can't say I'm completely self-taught other than that. To me it's all about letting them both happen, and seeing where each one leads the other.

[JimmyM]

lessons rule but don't waste time on teachers who teach you nonsense. you should be looking for someone who knows jazz concepts, proper technique, reading and writing music, making up basslines to chord changes, etc. not a fan of jazz? ok, but the concepts you learn from jazz can be applied to any music and will absolutely help you with all of them.

so lessons at the local gc with metalhead mikey who teaches you where to put your fingers to play the intro to "for whom the bell tolls" are probably just as good or bad as being self taught, but lessons with a jazz-based teacher are an education you can always use.

[Beginner Bass]

Lessons can make sure bad habits don't develop as much, point out where you're making mistakes, give advice, and other stuff.

[Minotauros]

From personal experience, a good teacher is the key. I'm a little biased and gun-shy, having had lessons (albeit guitar) with three different teachers at three different times. They were great musicians, but great musicians don't always make great or even good teachers. I withdrew all three times and finally decided to go it alone learning guitar and bass. I have to say that if you have a foundation of knowing guitar, bass comes a lot easier, I found. My preference would be to take live lessons and have a good teacher and coach/mentor, but I guess that's not my fate. I think it's somewhat tougher and slower to be self-taught, but not impossible.

[Kobaia]

a lot of times it doesnt matter how you find stuff to learn its that you continue to learn. a lot of times experience will cut the BS and get you on the right track.

[Euphony]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

lessons rule but don't waste time on teachers who teach you nonsense. you should be looking for someone who knows jazz concepts, proper technique, reading and writing music, making up basslines to chord changes, etc. not a fan of jazz? ok, but the concepts you learn from jazz can be applied to any music and will absolutely help you with all of them.

so lessons at the local gc with metalhead mikey who teaches you where to put your fingers to play the intro to "for whom the bell tolls" are probably just as good or bad as being self taught, but lessons with a jazz-based teacher are an education you can always use.

I can't really get into jazz (I've tried), but I admire and respect jazz musicians more than anyone, really. I mean, modern rock wouldn't exist today without jazz and blues.

I had a guitar teacher a few years ago who basically only transcribed song tabs for me, and never taught any theory. I want to be able to play original music someday, so getting a good musical foundation is important to me.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying I care what is more "impressive." I just wrote some questions to start a discussion. I'm committed to getting a teacher at this point.

[dieselbass]

I had a great teacher who gave me some sound foundational tools. I've progressed along on my own for the last ten years, but much more slowly. go into lessons with a firm idea of what you want out of them. also, interview your teacher and make sure your money is well spent.

[Marginal Tom]

I'd try to find one teacher who was strong on musical theory and another who was good at developing your ear. If you're exceptionally lucky, it could be the same guy (or gal). Cut your losses if your teacher isn't developing one or the other.

[bassike]

it is kind of hard to say.

I studied classical double bass for years, and when i deiced to just play bass and dedicate my playing to my music;
for some reason I did put all my knowledge of scales and rules on the side and, i play bass like someone who is self-taught.
meaning when I make up a bass line with my band i do not think of the scale and rules; i just make the line in my head and then i try to play it.

so i never think of scales and stuff.

may be i'll be better if i do but who knows

check this awesome self taught bass player that I found on you tube.
the guy has been plying for 6 years and, to me he is a pro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKrMQBzjlX4


the guy talent but just because guys like him are good, it doesn't mean that it's the way to go.

every one has to follow a different path so I would say.

analyze where you what togo with your playing and then see if you need lessons or not.

I hope this helps and i hope I'm not in the wrong.

[groooooove]

i dont know why people think music is the exception- your learning capability is REALLY limited without a teacher.

immagine trying to study math on your own VS with a good teacher. how much more will you learn?

then again, with a bad teacher you might not get much out of it, so use your discretion as to weather to stick with your first teacher or not.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Euphony

I can't really get into jazz (I've tried), but I admire and respect jazz musicians more than anyone, really. I mean, modern rock wouldn't exist today without jazz and blues.

I had a guitar teacher a few years ago who basically only transcribed song tabs for me, and never taught any theory. I want to be able to play original music someday, so getting a good musical foundation is important to me.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying I care what is more "impressive." I just wrote some questions to start a discussion. I'm committed to getting a teacher at this point.

well whether you get into jazz or not isn't the point. there just isn't a single type of music out there that will teach you what you can learn with a jazz based education. i'm not a big fan of jazz either, but there's no coincidence that the bassists recognized as the tops in their field have/had an extensive jazz background, including those who dominate in other fields.

[ausf]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

well whether you get into jazz or not isn't the point. there just isn't a single type of music out there that will teach you what you can learn with a jazz based education. i'm not a big fan of jazz either, but there's no coincidence that the bassists recognized as the tops in their field have/had an extensive jazz background, including those who dominate in other fields.

Spot on.

For the most part, jazz is improvisation. To accomplish this, you either need a great ear and instinct or a strong background in theory (or both) in a practical sense. Jazz teaches you to think on your feet, so if you're not a complete natural, it'll help not matter what genre you play.

If you haven't, go to good jazz club. You'll catch these cats who'll walk in, introduce themselves to each other, set up then play like they've known each other to 20 years. All off some chord progressions.
By contrast, I'd walk in a club, ask which songs do you guys know, hopefully find a few in common and it'll sound like we've never met.

[Mr wiggl3s]

depends on the person...***?

lol @ cesoring w tee eff

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Mr wiggl3s

depends on the person...***?

lol @ cesoring w tee eff

no, it doesn't. people who say it depends on the person:

1. have never tried it

OR...

2. think they're special

jazz instruction works way better than any other type of instruction if you want to see rapid improvement. it's not even debatable.

[officialjlox]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

lessons rule but don't waste time on teachers who teach you nonsense. you should be looking for someone who knows jazz concepts, proper technique, reading and writing music, making up basslines to chord changes, etc. not a fan of jazz? ok, but the concepts you learn from jazz can be applied to any music and will absolutely help you with all of them.

so lessons at the local gc with metalhead mikey who teaches you where to put your fingers to play the intro to "for whom the bell tolls" are probably just as good or bad as being self taught, but lessons with a jazz-based teacher are an education you can always use.

+1000

I took lessons from a great guitar teacher for years, but when I switched to bass he really wasn't helping, so I focused on educating myself with what I could find on the interwebz.

Over the weekend I took my first lesson with an experienced sessions player in Brooklyn and was blown away. The amount I learned from him in the first hour was incredible, and now the bass seems like a totally new instrument to me.