light vs heavy touch

[kesslari]

Without going into "one is good, one is bad..."
I'd like to better understand the differences in tone that tend to go with light vs. heavy touch in the hands of a good player.
Of course, I know the difference in my tone when I play light or dig in, but that's limited by my own technical abilities/limits.

My sense is that Jaco's usual sound, say, typifies a good player with a light touch.
Whereas Marcus Miller's finger sound (where it almost sounds as though he's "popping" out the notes") is an example of someone who digs in more when he plays.

Is that somewhat accurate?
What other examples might you give for a light touch or a harder touch?

[grieverOSOK]

harder touch makes for a harsher sound and would generate more buzz. lighter playing leaves a softer smoother sound and allows for faster playing and is not as hard on your hand.

[xlows]

Playing with a heavier hand can really make for an angry bass sound. It works very well if you play rock or punk or some kinds of metal. Lighter touch allows for faster playing, and is better for jazz and R&B and the like.

[CapnSev]

Hard:

Flea
Louis Johnson
Jack Bruce

Light:

Stu Zender
John Entwistle
Jaco

Hard plting can be simulated pretty well with the proper EQ on the amp, and the right technique. Hard playing has dynamic benefits, but kills sustain and fingers.

[rakirksey]

Originally Posted by CapnSev

Hard playing has dynamic benefits, but kills sustain and fingers.

I agree. I try to use a bit of both hard and soft playing in the tool box. There definitely is a tonality that hard playing gives at the expense of your fingers.

[spindizzy]

And here I thought the idea was to know how to play softly so that you had a dynamic range which could include beating the hell out of it. There isn't one or the other but rather the ability to control your overall dynamics simply by adjusting your attack and attack strength.

Done. Spin.

[cnltb]

I feel that I have more dynamic possibilities when starting with a fairly soft touch.
This way I get the biggest tone from my instrument and can go louder as well as softer.
It feels good to.

[Earthday]

I like playing soft because it allows me to play hard on a few key notes to add that extra oomph to the song, and I haven't found any tone that would make it more desirable for me to play harder all the time. I think either is fine, the important thing is that you are under control. If you can play hard but can't play soft, there's a problem.

Also if you want to use some effects like an Envelope Filter that are sensitivity based you need to know how to control your dynamics.

[Vanceman]

Softer touch allows me to play longer more consistently. I'm fairly new to this game, so 4 sets of music at the gig takes some effort to be consistent.

[Blueszilla]

Originally Posted by kesslari

My sense is that Jaco's usual sound, say, typifies a good player with a light touch.
Whereas Marcus Miller's finger sound (where it almost sounds as though he's "popping" out the notes") is an example of someone who digs in more when he plays.

Is that somewhat accurate?
What other examples might you give for a light touch or a harder touch?

If you've listened to a lot of Marcus,(say with Miles) you'll note that is his playing encompasses all range of touch. I would even say his attack can be very light depending on the tune and what he might be trying to do. Certainly there are instances where his approach is pretty firm, but that's part of how he gets that tone, but IMO I wouldn't define his touch as heavy or hard. What sounds like an aggressive attack is actually very measured and accurate, showing great economy of motion, making it seem like he's pounding the FB, when in fact it's "just hard enough", if you know what I mean.

As for your question, IMO/IME having a light touch gives you the greatest amount of control over your volume, as you can dig in more to get louder, and keeps fatigue from setting in on those long gigs. A lighter touch can provide greater control, less string noise, and possibly more accurate finger placement. I know that as I have gotten older, my touch has become lighter, and I haven't sacrificed volume or tone because the attack is better quality, due to placement and accuracy.

[neurotictim]

Geddy Lee has a heavy touch, which (also talked about here) contributes greatly to his tone.

I agree with the above sentiments. Being able to control your attack is key. Then you can decide which you like better.

I'm a heavy-touch guy, I like getting some extra growl out of the strings. And my fretting fingers can prove it.

[kesslari]

Thanks for the input.
I prefer to use a light touch myself, allowing for differences in attack as dictated by musical and volume needs.

But even when I dig in, I don't get that "Marcus/Victor almost popping" sound.
Not that that particular sound is my sonic nirvana, but I'm curious as to how he gets it (and how to get it) and "use bass X and amp Y (and/or effect Z)" is not the entire story.
Probably for that specific question I'll need to hit youtube and watch some video of their playing.

[Jazzerbone]

I find that when I play more towards the bridge with my right hand I can dig in all I want and not get that Marcus pop sound. When I play more over the pickups where the strings can give a little bit I get a great pop.

It's also a whole bunch easier to play soft near the bridge.

[kesslari]

Jazzerbone, that makes tremendous sense. I do most of my playing near the bridge - I like that sound and feel, but digging in doesn't get that "pop".
I usually go to the neck pup position when I want a thicker "old p-bass" tone. Haven't tried it really digging for "pop".
Will play with hand placement and attack a bit...
Thanks

[docmaster]

I find that different music requires not only different right hand attack, but also different attack placement on the string.

Twenty years ago, when I was a full-time player, I had such a heavy right hand that the signal to change strings was when one broke (about once a month, and it was never the same string -- they all broke).

I layed out for a few years and now I find that I can still bang hell out the strings when I need to (for dynamic reasons) but I no longer have to -- haven't broken a string in the last five years.

For very soft, legato-style music, I use my ring finger (which I never use, so it has no callus) to pluck smoothly, positioned over the 24th fret. For hard rock, I'm right on top of the pickup and digging in with the first two fingers.

However, most of the time I now go for a medium attack, to allow for the most available dynamic range. I don't even have pots on my fretless because I always just turn them all the way up -- all my dynamics come from my right hand.

[JonathanD]

Originally Posted by spindizzy

And here I thought the idea was to know how to play softly so that you had a dynamic range which could include beating the hell out of it. There isn't one or the other but rather the ability to control your overall dynamics simply by adjusting your attack and attack strength.

Done. Spin.

Yep(Pulls up britches)
Jonathan

[kesslari]

Well, it (digging in over the bridge pickup with proper attack and attitude) definitely worked toward yielding a much closer approximation of that "victor/marcus popping tone".
It's not my preferred way to play, but it's definitely a cool addition to the tonal palette, and I'll probably play around with it some more over the coming weeks.

[pjmuck]

Jaco did not generally have a light touch. if you listen to his work, you'll hear him change his attack depending on the piece he was playing. But as far as his trademark fast 16th note runs are concerned, he dug in pretty hard and used to constantly strengthen his hands by squeezing rubber balls so that his attack and articulation would be clear and precise.

[iamlowsound]

I play with a light touch so I have more control over dynamics. Lately I have found myself playing with more of a medium touch, I need to turn up a bit more.

lowsound

[Lesfunk]

Can't we have both?