Little part of RHCP's "Around The World"

[lemur821]

Tucker, KPJ is trying to tell you that TAB is an excellent way to convey the fingering originally used to play a piece. He knows that standard notation is useful, but he also knows that TAB can be useful. Standard notation is wonderful for a lot of things, but it doesn't convey specific fingerings any better than TAB conveys rhythm. And like he says, a bassist needs to be able to use whatever he's hit with. Standard notation elitism isn't any better than a refusal to learn it because you can read TAB.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by lemur821

And like he says, a bassist needs to be able to use whatever he's hit with. Standard notation elitism isn't any better than a refusal to learn it because you can read TAB.

ok, everyone who's seen TAB on a gig, raise your hand.


Nobody?






That's what I thought.

[KPJ]

Lemur, thank you for elucidating my point! I think that anyone that who does not try to use any tool available to improve themselves as artists is shortchanging themselves and the music. The guitarist in my current band does not read music and will not use the standard notation and chord charts that we supply him. He insists on sitting down, writing out the lyrics and wriring the chord changes to the lyrics. That is all well and good, however it does not translate rhythm and he cannot tell the difference between a F# Minor and a D/F#. It is also frustrating because we give him the music for some of the more complex songs we want to do and he prevents us from progressing because he takes forever to learn the songs we have charted.

Sorry to stray from the topic of this thread, but I'm frustrated as I had a difficult gig last night. The rest of the band and I are going to speak with the band managers to try and reach a solution.

And no Pacman, I have not seen TAB on a gig!
But I have had bands hand me TAB at practices...

[tucker]

nuff said, besides if it takes you that long to get your buddy to learn a song. get a new guitarist or get him lessons. seriously you are only limiting yourself. its really sad to see and hear bassists, guitarist anyone play an instrument without knowing what they are doing.

[Juddium]

Originally Posted by Pacman

ok, everyone who's seen TAB on a gig, raise your hand.


Nobody?






That's what I thought.

the essence of elitism.
not everyone is as accomplished as you are. half the point of places like talkbass are for those who are learning to learn, and for those who know to teach - and most of the reason why talkbass is so good is because those who teach aren't elitist pricks.

no offense intended. just consider everyone and their skills, not what you think they should be

[lemur821]

nuff said, besides if it takes you that long to get your buddy to learn a song. get a new guitarist or get him lessons. seriously you are only limiting yourself. its really sad to see and hear bassists, guitarist anyone play an instrument without knowing what they are doing.

Knowing and using TAB is a very different thing from not knowing what you're doing. More knowledge is never less, no matter how much some people hate TAB.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by Juddium

the essence of elitism.
not everyone is as accomplished as you are. half the point of places like talkbass are for those who are learning to learn, and for those who know to teach - and most of the reason why talkbass is so good is because those who teach aren't elitist pricks.

no offense intended. just consider everyone and their skills, not what you think they should be

Funny, call me a prick and then say no offense

My point is that TAB will never be given to you at a gig (as lemur implied). And the very important point (as it relates to your post) is that TAB will NOT help you improve. This has been discussed to death here.....

You want teaching? Ask someone more accomplished than you how they got to where they are. You'll learn something.

[Jace The Bass]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Funny, call me a prick and then say no offense

My point is that TAB will never be given to you at a gig (as lemur implied). And the very important point (as it relates to your post) is that TAB will NOT help you improve. This has been discussed to death here.....

You want teaching? Ask someone more accomplished than you how they got to where they are. You'll learn something.

Ok Pacman I know what youré problem is:

" You've been eating too much red beans and rice "

[mrWr0ng]

What does tab vs sheet music have to do with being a good player?

Before the current 'western' system of writing music was adopted, the romans used a grid system for writing out their music. places on the grid were used to determine note pitch along one axis and note length on the other axis.

tab, i believe, is a somewhat rudimentary re-envisioning of this. It's a much more visual system based on the instrument you're playing, which makes it much more useful for the person playing that instrument. Now at this point tab has no method for addressing note length except when notated, and though that's an issue for learning the song w/out the help of the song there to listen to, it's not an issue when you can listen and play along, nor is it an issue when you know the rhythm of the song.

anyways, it works because it is based on the instrument on which you play. As much as elitist sheet music people lord over their ability to 'read sheet music' (which i believe any dedicated musician SHOULD learn, but this is besides the point, this is like going to france, you should at least learn enough french to get by but you don't have to), tab is also completely foreign to those who don't play the instrument - i know because i've opened it up and showed it to someone who was asking me about a riff and i wanted her to see it. She had no idea what it was.

Society itself is much more visual that it used to be. With computers, movies, TV, a lot of entertainment is visual-based and so we work heavily with our eyes. Musical notation is kind of a more abstract-version of this, whereas tab is a more direct recreation of what we visually see (including the notation being upside down - compensating for your perspective while playing your instrument!), while it has the note-length flaw, i could imagine that being corrected by some studious individual and see tab really begin to replace notation for the string musician, especially as far as the internet is concerned.

[Juddium]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Funny, call me a prick and then say no offense

My point is that TAB will never be given to you at a gig (as lemur implied). And the very important point (as it relates to your post) is that TAB will NOT help you improve. This has been discussed to death here.....

You want teaching? Ask someone more accomplished than you how they got to where they are. You'll learn something.

agreed, tab will never be given at a gig. it was the implication of the comment that I was getting at.
and I disagree that tab won't help you improve - anything that teaches you something can help anyone, especially those who are less musically inclined/not as advanced/not as experienced. (example - seeing/learning box patterns are easier with tabs than with standard notation)

oh, and I wasn't calling you a prick specifically. that's what the no offense part was about.

[f'nar f'nar]

I just think people should look at Dirk Lance from incubus, he personally admits to not knowing much theory or notation and learning from tabs mostly, and he's considered a very respectable bassist.

I'm a fairly decent bassist and play in quite a few bands and know very little about bass theory, i admit I should learn it, but i concentrate more on learning all the techniques and tricks and whatnot rather than letters of the alphabet and whatnot.

I think learning music and theory is all a very personal thing and people need to do what they want when learning the bass and not have people telling them off for not learning certain things. If i want learn notation and so fourth I will, and so will everyone on the forum if they want to. So to tucker: Don't tell people they're limiting their abilities because they're not doing something you do. Dont act all pretentious and get worked up because someone doesn't learn the way you do. This thread has gone so off topic i've had to scroll back up to the top of the page to find out what it was about.

On Topic: I believe flea plays a triplet followed by a long bent note here as mentioned earlier, but i play the last note with a fast but wide vibrato as opposed to a solid bend, works well and sounds the shiznit.

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by Pacman

My point is that TAB will never be given to you at a gig (as lemur implied).

I wasn't actually implying that. I don't mean that it's vital to your career as a bassist, I mean that when someone hands you some music, at a gig (where no one's seen TAB, I know), jamming with friends, or at a rehearsal, you should be able to use it, or you're a bit of a pain to be stuck with. Just like the guitarist mentioned earlier who uses his own system (I know a guy like that), you'd drag everyone else down.

[GobyWan]

To all the people moaning about how much TAB sucks and how it's not a real notation system:

TAB (assuming it's correct) is excellent for learning the fingerings of a song when learning it by ear. It's useful because notation does not tell you where on the neck you ought to play someone else's songs. You can't play a tune solely from TAB, but it's a useful learning aid and should be accepted as such.

Bottom line: TAB and standard notation are different tools for different purposes. Stop fighting about them.