A little trouble in alternating fingers?

[Warlockez]

So basically. Im not really a beginner, and I'm not a pro. But I've been having this little problem. I just can't seem to alternate after a while. I end up playing with one of my fingers more, still alternating but one of my fingers play more.
So far it doesnt interfere with me playing but I just wanted to know if its a problem for the future.

sometimes i end up playing MIMIMI((MMIMMIMMI)) or something.

[fearceol]

I'm afraid there is no magic wand here, except the old boring word, practice.

You can always do this with the bass unplugged, while watching TV etc. Do it slowly and deliberately at first, making sure you are alternating. Then increase the speed gradually. After a while muscle memory kicks in and it comes naturally.

You'll get mixed opinions here on whether you should always alternate. IMO it's best to do so.

[thunderstation]

when I was learning - I alway practiced a "walking bass" pattern. I like it because not only did it help to train my left hand [fretting] fingers to move independantly, it also helped my right plucking hand. I could walk the bass as slowly or as quickly as I wanted and this helped to co-ordinate the independant finfer motion for both hands

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by fearceol

I'm afraid there is no magic wand here, except the old boring word, practice.

You can always do this with the bass unplugged, while watching TV etc. Do it slowly and deliberately at first, making sure you are alternating. Then increase the speed gradually. After a while muscle memory kicks in and it comes naturally.

You'll get mixed opinions here on whether you should always alternate. IMO it's best to do so.

+1 to everything. including "it's best to do so." some will argue that it's not always best to do so, but they're wrong.

[Psycho]

I too have a dominance issue with my fingers.

What bass lines are troubling you the most?

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Psycho

I too have a dominance issue with my fingers.

What bass lines are troubling you the most?

Do you really have dominance issues or is it just an idea you want to buy into?
First off i help lots of players with hand issues and unless the problem is a physical one, that is of injury, then it is your mind you want to develop not the fingers.

First question is why strict alternation?
Trust me it makes no real difference. To strictly alternate....a sequencer and a computer can do that. Music requires ebb and flow, dynamics, light and shade etc. All these things happen easier if the fingers play what is best for the music or song at the time, applying a strict alternating pattern is not the object in playing it is the music. There is a thing called paralysis by analysis, that is you look so much to a technique that you miss the point, the point is the music.

Now there will be players that will come on here and tell you how there playing has benefited from working a strictly alternating technique, but can the say what would be the benefit if they did not develop one?
Answer is no, because they can only relate to what worked for them. I use a three finger occasional technique, that is i play with two but let a third finger join in when necessary. I do not strictly alternate, but i do a lot of the time just play the music with whatever finger is needed, and it has never been a problem in over 35 years.

[JimmyM]

whoa, a challenge!

ok, i'm up for it...had i not learned it and stuck to it rigidly, all the faster stuff that i was able to play smoothly with sa would not have happened without it. i suppose you can make a case that it's not necessary with regular playing, but try to play something that requires a lot of 16th notes in a row and you'll soon see what an advantage it is. and since it worked out so well for me with the fast stuff, i stick to it for the slower stuff, too. i think i play a lot more smoothly and in time as a result.

analysis to paralysis is only when you dig so deep into theory that you're always looking for some rule of theory to explain everything you want to do instead of just playing something that sounds good. working on technique is a good thing...nobody ever complains when their golf teacher works on technique. why would anyone complain if their bass teacher does?

[Fergie Fulton]

LOL ease up Jimmy ease up...this is no challenge just pointing out common sense reasons to learn. What works for you and I do not need to work for all. For you and i it is a desirable element that has developed in our playing, i for one do not remember devoting any time in "developing it" as such.

The way forward is to get the use of the fingers then the music you choose to play will dictate how well you have to refine it. So make better choices in the music you play and that will push you and the need to develop the fingers further will happen.
As i said you can develop it if there are problems with exercise but in general playing music that pushes you a bit more every time will get the job done. What we get sometimes is impatience, a player will watch you Jimmy and want that skill now, or a short cut do get there, so they go chasing down rainbows rather than doing the work. That is why i said what i said....just let it develop from playing as a need from necessity.

[JimmyM]

i actually had to develop it. i took lessons from dave larue, and on the first say he said, "you're going to play everything we work on with strict alternation. there will be no raking." so it was either develop it or have dave mad at me. i elected to develop it

that said, i think there's merit to what you say, but sometimes you need to have stuff pointed out to you as well.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i actually had to develop it. i took lessons from dave larue, and on the first say he said, "you're going to play everything we work on with strict alternation. there will be no raking." so it was either develop it or have dave mad at me. i elected to develop it

that said, i think there's merit to what you say, but sometimes you need to have stuff pointed out to you as well.

And in saying that Jimmy could you play what Dave was offering you without it?

[Luis Fabara]

Developing right hand technique is very important, and MUST be done.

The music comes first... when composing or playing live. But as any professional or person that is fanatic with what he/she does, you will want to have all the best tools for your job.

The intrument, technique and knowledge are all tools to a means: Making good sounding music.

Alex Webster on 3 finger technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3tTp7tgAbI

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

And in saying that Jimmy could you play what Dave was offering you without it?

absolutely not. dave's a bit of a ballbuster on lessons. he always pushes you to do just a little more than you can. but then you end up surprising yourself and doing it so it's all good.

[Staccato]

Considering beginners, (like myself) there is great value in practicing at least 5-10 mins. a day with the left pinkie. This should work wonders on the left hand 'pinkie' strength/technique in six months-while you're practicing/alternating with fingers of the right hand. Lefties, you know the drill.

[UncleFluffy]

I usually spend 10min or so working through each finger and left-to-right combination of fingers (so 1, 2, 3, 4, 1+2, 1+3, 1+4, 2+3, 2+4, 3+4, 1+2+3, 1+2+4, 1+3+4, 2+3+4, 1+2+3+4) with a metronome, starting slowly and stepping it up 20bpm at a time. Open string and then 7th fret.

(I work my pinkie because it has arthritis and I don't want it seizing up. It's fairly rare for me to use it when playing but sometimes it helps).

Boring as hell, but gets the job done.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

absolutely not. dave's a bit of a ballbuster on lessons. he always pushes you to do just a little more than you can. but then you end up surprising yourself and doing it so it's all good.

And that is my point Jimmy, there was no other way to do what you needed to play. I just meet so many players that seem to want to learn a technique for the sake of it, i believe there has to be a foundation even for a technique to work properly and get the most from it.

[KingRazor]

I practice IMIMIMIM alternating but I also practice IMMIMMIMM and IIMIIMIIM (but less so). Some parts call for one or the other. I just listen and try to play what I hear.

[Skitch it!]

IMO, It doesn't come easy but nothing worth doing ever did...if you can crack strict alternation independence, the rest will come easy.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

And in saying that Jimmy could you play what Dave was offering you without it?

+1 - I'd be very disturbed by a teacher who's that doctrinaire about technique.

My career was ended by that attitude. I went 25 years with the mindset of "if you don't do this and that you're going to suck/you'll never get famous/you'll never be able to make music". Finally woke up one day and realized my left hand was basically trashed and that was the end of it.

So, I would never study with a teacher who said something like that; I'd tell em to take a hike right there no matter how famous or accomplished - I gladly take the highway when the ultimatum is given and never look back.

I think a much safer approach is to try different techniques, _BUT_ be prepared to abandon them at any time if it's found that they don't work for you. If the teacher continues to insist that your persist with something that doesn't work, walk out, right now.

But that's just my emphasis nowadays - I'm not so concerned about techniques that cause you to merely suck, but more concentrate on things that can end your playing for good (since that's the road I've ended up going down).

That said, the issue with SA is probably not something that could affect injury, so I'm agnostic about it. I've raked (hammerstroked) the entire time and it hasn't hindered me, tho I'll admit I never tried SA when going down. Going up, tho, I use SA and it works the best for me.

LS