Locking in with the drums.

[jarrhead]

I've always heard of locking in with the drums. And i've hardcored my bass for the past few months, making lines that you would hear Justin Chancellor making.

I understand perfectly keeping keys and and modes and everything.

But i'm in a hard rock band, and I'm just wondering how exactly you "lock in" with the drums? Anybody familiar with my type of hard rock the bass drum goes something like..

E er E er ESS sr E E

And i'm playing a pretty catchy 8th note rhythm.

I know it's not exactly locked in, but by the progress i'm making I dont think I Need it for that song.

Anyways, back to point. I'm in the mood to play some more simple bass lines, based on my musical mood the past few days. How exactly would I "lock in" with the bass?

I've been studying bands like Bullet for My Valentine, Pantera, III Rail, and Tokio Hotel. I never quite found how they lock in, as the bass is ALWAYS playing mroe notes than the bass drum?

I could use some explanation.

[wildhorse]

Always be on the 1 with the bass drum what's inbetween is not as important as long as you're within the time signature of the song. That's a good place to start anyway.

[DeluxeRed]

If you're playing any sort of syncopation, it sounds better (imo) if it is synchronized with the bass drum. Also, listening to the hi-hat and following the "swing" of the song can also help you produce the same feel in the song, which I presume is the goal. Basically, the two of you sound like you are paying attention to each other and are playing the same thing.

Uh...I hope that helps!

[SSINTENSE]

Yeah. For a start, for music in general try locking onto a specific part of the drums rather than all of the drums as a whole and use that "feel" to come up with your own groove. It would be good practice to practice your rhythmic feel with just one note, and with practice eventually build up the melody a bit. Once you can do that sort of thing you can really play around with the drums because if the drummer is good he is giving you alot of different kind of rhythms to play around with.

But for hardrock I am pretty sure 16th notes are very common so it is best just to stay in time. I'm still pretty noob but i'm pretty sure the best thing to do in a rock situation is listen to the bass drum and feel your way around that.

[unclekebm]

Know & feel the "groove" without playing a note

and feel the space between notes

that will get you in "the pocket" even if you're just sitting in

[JimiLL]

First thing to listen to is the bass drum. second would be the snare or maybe hi-hat

[drden]

Hitting the root with the kick drum is essential. Staying on the one with the root is a good idea unless there's a riff that says to do otherwise. You can get more creative with the snare drum after you get good with the kick.

Listen to Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon and Ben Kenney's work with incubus. two very locked-in sounds, IMHO

[JimmyM]

"Locking in with the drums" is one of those nebulous terms that essentially means "keeping good time." Yes, you can follow along exactly with the bass drum as a way of locking in, but while it does work for some things, it's ever so boring. I greatly prefer a bass player who knows when to plow right through the drummer, much like Jamerson used to in his best stuff, much like McCartney did in his best stuff, much like almost all my favorite bassists with the exception of Cliff Williams. Cliff mostly plays 16th note roots, but as far as I'm concerned, he can do no wrong

I also prefer taking the lead in the bass/drums dynamic. Since bass parts are usually based on what the main rhythmic instrument is doing (at least in pop styles), I think the drummer should take his cues from the bassist rather than vice versa. You can't tell them that or they get very upset , but I find it works better that way and makes for a more interesting rhythm section.

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

...Since bass parts are usually based on what the main rhythmic instrument is doing (at least in pop styles), I think the drummer should take his cues from the bassist rather than vice versa. You can't tell them that or they get very upset , but I find it works better that way and makes for a more interesting rhythm section.

+1

[Gab124]

I read somewhere here a few days ago about holding a note and choking or cutting off just before a snare hit - supposed to accentuate the drum line and make for a tighter sounding rhythm section. I thought this sounded like a great idea to try out, knowing full well it will not work all the time. But get enough little tricks like that and it should make an improvement in overall sound.. This is the most important part of playing bass (at least in a band with drums) that I can think of - locking in with the rythm section..

[unclekebm]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

"Locking in with the drums" is one of those nebulous terms that essentially means "keeping good time." Yes, you can follow along exactly with the bass drum as a way of locking in, but while it does work for some things, it's ever so boring. I greatly prefer a bass player who knows when to plow right through the drummer, much like Jamerson used to in his best stuff, much like McCartney did in his best stuff, much like almost all my favorite bassists with the exception of Cliff Williams. Cliff mostly plays 16th note roots, but as far as I'm concerned, he can do no wrong

I also prefer taking the lead in the bass/drums dynamic. Since bass parts are usually based on what the main rhythmic instrument is doing (at least in pop styles), I think the drummer should take his cues from the bassist rather than vice versa. You can't tell them that or they get very upset , but I find it works better that way and makes for a more interesting rhythm section.

+2
what you said and what I said...thread over

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I think the drummer should take his cues from the bassist rather than vice versa.

Way to go Jimmy! You just started the next generation of bass players off believing the drummer doesn't matter, where time is concerned.

[jarrhead]

Originally Posted by Craig_S

Way to go Jimmy! You just started the next generation of bass players off believing the drummer doesn't matter, where time is concerned.

So I was the co-starter of a revolution. :P

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Craig_S

Way to go Jimmy! You just started the next generation of bass players off believing the drummer doesn't matter, where time is concerned.

Yeah, I'm so influential

You misunderstand. First off, everyone in the band is responsible for good time, not just the drummer. Second, I never said anything about ignoring the drummer's time. I'm just saying that for the bassist to shape his part around what the drummer is doing is the wrong direction. Has nothing to do with time, but with parts. I think the bassist needs to shape his/her part around what the main rhythmic instrument is doing, and let the drummer come to you more than coming to him. If the drummer does something cool that you want to emphasize, so be it. But if you let the drummer dictate what you do on bass, it's going to sound boring 9 times out of 10.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by jarrhead

So I was the co-starter of a revolution. :P

HAHA! No, actually neither of us have done anything since bassists barreling through drummers has been going on since the bass and drums were invented.

[jarrhead]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

HAHA! No, actually neither of us have done anything since bassists barreling through drummers has been going on since the bass and drums were invented.

It was a joke, man.

[wildhorse]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

"Locking in with the drums" is one of those nebulous terms that essentially means "keeping good time." Yes, you can follow along exactly with the bass drum as a way of locking in, but while it does work for some things, it's ever so boring. I greatly prefer a bass player who knows when to plow right through the drummer, much like Jamerson used to in his best stuff, much like McCartney did in his best stuff, much like almost all my favorite bassists with the exception of Cliff Williams. Cliff mostly plays 16th note roots, but as far as I'm concerned, he can do no wrong

I also prefer taking the lead in the bass/drums dynamic. Since bass parts are usually based on what the main rhythmic instrument is doing (at least in pop styles), I think the drummer should take his cues from the bassist rather than vice versa. You can't tell them that or they get very upset , but I find it works better that way and makes for a more interesting rhythm section.

Well Jimmy "Locked In" usually is a term that means you are jelling together and playing off of each other. Time wise this is generally done by the Bass and Drummer, however all the team players should be listening to each other. Being a multi instumentalist myself I can usually take the band in the direction I want to go as well as set the time regardless of what instrument I am playing. That doesn't mean that at times you play a little give and take if you know what I mean.
As a drummer I many times do my playing around and for the vocalist as a guitarist might do. On a good groove the bass player is going to follow right along, that or he's going to sound like he knows nothing about timing. Just putting on my drummer shoes there for a second.

[HogieWan]

Originally Posted by Craig_S

Way to go Jimmy! You just started the next generation of bass players off believing the drummer doesn't matter, where time is concerned.

I played in a Jazz Ensemble in college and was told that the bass keeps time while everyone else follows.

[jarrhead]

Originally Posted by HogieWan

I played in a Jazz Ensemble in college and was told that the bass keeps time while everyone else follows.

Not to slam you or anything but Jazz usually is all about bass.

I play in a hard rock band. Which is all guitar drum and the bass just powers it up.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by jarrhead

It was a joke, man.

DUH! I got it...that's why I said "HAHA"!

And yes, jazz swing/bebop is a lot more about bass keeping time, though more modern styles of jazz put that role more on the drummer.