A lot of confusion on left-hand technique

[jamisonsalamand]

I've been playing with my left hand a certain way for a while now, and only recently have I dealt with a lot of frustration on how I should be properly positioning my hand. I play with the tips of my fingers, and I play almost with my thumb above the neck. The top of my palm, where it meets the bottoms of my fingers, is usually kind of pushed against the bottom of the neck. My bass teacher told me I should not do that and let my hand relax more and keep my thumb in the middle of the neck. The problem with when I try to do this is that the neck doesn't feel supported, and it's like it's flopping all over the place when I play bass parts like Master of Puppets. It also feels a lot less precise with my fingers and fretting, and like I have less control and speed playing in the relaxed position rather than with my palm bunched up on the neck. It's akin to playing with drumsticks with your fingers just barely on the ends of the sticks, and then the way I always used to play is like holding the drumsticks in the perfect rebound spot.

I don't really know how to get used to how I am "supposed" to be positioning my left hand, and it feels very awkward a lot of the time. Is there a benefit to playing the way he suggests to me, and/or is there a way to get used to how insecure this position feels?

[kdiggity]

FWIW, when I first began playing bass, a very accomplished player told me the same thing. Basically, he said not to grip the neck in my hand like it were a baseball bat, but to place my thumb in the middle of the neck back.

I agree with you: it seemed counter-intuitive at the time, and I didn't like it. However, trusting his expertise, I stuck with it. Now, after playing that way and getting used it, I can't imagine gripping that thing 'full palm'. The 'thumb in the middle' technique actually gives my hand and wrist more flexibility and movement.

If your bass feels unsupported when you hold it like that, it is probably due to the bass having a heavy headstock (some basses just aren't balanced), or your strap is to 'slippery'. IME, a bass should rest in a horizontal (give or take) position without needing any support from your fretting hand to help hold it up. The fretting hand is there to fret, not support the bass!

You could try a thicker/heavier strap that 'clings' to your shoulder and back better, thus, not allowing the bass to dip, dive, and flop as much.

That, in summary, is what I would suggest. Along with trusting your teacher, and not gripping the bass nick, full palm style. In the end, it's up to you, and what feels best. YMMV, and all that jazz.

-K

[MoireBass]

Originally Posted by jamisonsalamand

I've been playing with my left hand a certain way for a while now, and only recently have I dealt with a lot of frustration on how I should be properly positioning my hand. I play with the tips of my fingers, and I play almost with my thumb above the neck. The top of my palm, where it meets the bottoms of my fingers, is usually kind of pushed against the bottom of the neck. My bass teacher told me I should not do that and let my hand relax more and keep my thumb in the middle of the neck. The problem with when I try to do this is that the neck doesn't feel supported, and it's like it's flopping all over the place when I play bass parts like Master of Puppets. It also feels a lot less precise with my fingers and fretting, and like I have less control and speed playing in the relaxed position rather than with my palm bunched up on the neck. It's akin to playing with drumsticks with your fingers just barely on the ends of the sticks, and then the way I always used to play is like holding the drumsticks in the perfect rebound spot.

I don't really know how to get used to how I am "supposed" to be positioning my left hand, and it feels very awkward a lot of the time. Is there a benefit to playing the way he suggests to me, and/or is there a way to get used to how insecure this position feels?

No!!!
Your left hand is not there to support the neck of the bass, and the neck is not a handle that you need to grip securely. Your left hand should be free to dance across the fretboard/fingerboard, as free and effortlessly as possible.

Get a good strap that keeps the neck from diving, as the previous poster recommended. Use it both standing and sitting, and adjust it high enough so that the bass is the same height relative to your shoulders standing or sitting. You should be able to remove your left hand entirely without the neck moving up or down.

Your left thumb (reverse all these if you're left-handed) should be approximately in the middle of the back of the neck on a 4-string, and your left fingers should curl up and over the fingerboard so that they have maximum flexibility, strength and speed. Your left wrist should be relaxed and turned/flexed just enough so that the first wrinkle appears between hand and arm. The contact area on your fingers is not where the fingerprint whorls are (as your post kinda sounds like), but up on the curve of the fingertips (approx. 3/8" back from the nail). This position enables you to move quickly, shift rapidly, not tire as quickly and, most importantly, gives you a more centered and musical tone. Good sound comes from your fingers first. The idea is to not waste a lot of physical energy fighting your instrument, it's to focus that energy 100% where it matters, on getting good sound and on the complexities of what you're playing.

[MysticMichael]

Your teacher is correct. And so are kdiggity and MoireBass.

I can almost feel the stress in your hand and forearm - simply by the description of your technique that you've provided. It's a sure-fire recipe for physical problems (i.e. carpal tunnel syndrome, etc.) down the road - not to mention a serious constraint to the development of your musicianship - unless you correct it now.

Playing the electric bass isn't supposed to be physically stressful. If it is for you, it's a sign that you're doing it wrong.

As for how to make the correct technique feel more natural to you, I couldn't help you there. While I was first learning the instrument 34 years ago, I took note of the technique the accomplished professionals were using - and taught myself to play the correct way, right from the start. So it always has felt natural to me...

MM

[WannaJazz]

I bought one of these, and it is the type of strap the guys are suggesting. Of course there are many others. I like it, it is wide and soft, it grips your clothing enough to support the bass where you like it.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...rap?sku=367528

[fearceol]

I agree with all that has been said so far. From a physical aspect, as well as a playing one, your teacher's ( and the posts here ) advice makes sense. Stick with it for a while, it will be worth it IMO.

Check out this link from a fellow TB'r :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA

[randaddy]

I play both guitar and bass.
As a guitarist, I found that I was picking in a really weird way. (I noticed in the mirror.)

So I changed to what was more of a conventional picking style. It only took a couple of days and I was very comfortable with it.

Then I discoverd that many speed pickers angle the pick in a different way. So I tried that and liked it quite a bit. I got pretty good picking that way.

Then I went back to the conventional way.

Moral of the story...

Try the "correct" way that was described to you.
And don't be afraid that it will mess you up.
But keep using "your" style also if you want.
As you get better, you'll probably notice that one way has more advantages.
Experiment a little, always remembering that the reason so many players use the conventional way is that it works well!

But not worring about it too much will free you to relax. It won't ruin you to try a few ways and learn why the best way works so well.

This is just my opinion.

[Baron Von Vik]

Great thread.

[jordy_on_bass]

I was in the same boat for a long time. Your hand is in such a death grip on the neck that your fingers find it hard to make stretches and movements fast enough to other notes, and you are getting frustrated because you feel like you arent getting any better? It felt weird for me as well when I went to putting my thumb in the middle of the neck, but bass lines I used to struggle with are so much easier now. My left hand technique improved ten-fold. I tried to get my best mate, who was also a bassist, to stop 'strangling' the neck and to keep his palm 'clean', but he was too stubborn saying he felt more comfortable cradling the neck in his palm. Yet he couldn't figure out why I could stretch further near the headstock and hit those stretches faster and better than he could, even though he has bigger hands. Tried to tell him to do it, but he wasn't having a bar of it. Now he plays guitar because he was getting sick of playing bass. I think its pretty self-explanatory

Cheers,
Jordan

[makkE]

I have been there too, with the thumb sticking out, and when it wasn't, it was bent inwards like crazy, pointing down the neck..
I could hardly play simple root/octave/seventh pattern that way.

It is hard to correct it, but it's VERY worth it. You might need to adjust your strap height too - not too low, not too high (keep your wrists straight). I went from crotch height to belly button height (the center of the fretboard is right at my belly button).

Just go at it slowly. It will feel weird at first. You will probably fall back into your old habits whenever you just play with your band or play known material.
A good way to correct your technique is to practise it while playing stuff that is new to you too.

Give it time, keep on practising, don't try to force it all the time, it will eventually blend into your playing and after a while it will take over.

The funny thing is, I sometimes try to play like I used to, and it's almost impossible now.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by fearceol

I agree with all that has been said so far. From a physical aspect, as well as a playing one, your teacher's ( and the posts here ) advice makes sense. Stick with it for a while, it will be worth it IMO.

Check out this link from a fellow TB'r :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA

Thanks for posting Here's a link to the related blog article...

http://adamneely.com/2010/07/17/that-pesky-left-hand/

Most of this stuff that's already been posted in this thread is basically what I say in the video/article, but I approach it very comprehensively, so I'd suggest you check them out if you're having questions. This is what I've taught to my students and people asking about my technique.

I've found that the single most important thing about having the left hand technique come together is the placement of the left hand thumb. Too many people teach that the thumb should be not only in the middle of the neck (which is perfectly fine), but that it should be vertical or "pinch" with the left hand's index finger or middle finger. This can be, when misapplied, not only wrong but dangerous because it can create a very sharp angle in the left hand's wrist that can cause injury. A lot of people get the idea the "C shape" left hand concept that's applicable to upright bass and guitar should be applied to electric bass. It shouldn't - the instrument just isn't designed with that in mind (unless you're going for a more extreme vertical angle for your bass strap....but I digress) For the lower positions, at least, the thumb should be to the left of the first finger and pointed towards the headstock.

Another very important aspect of left hand technique is getting the left hand to apply as small amount of pressure as possible to the fretboard. It sounds like you, the OP have a bad case of "deathgrip," or gripping the neck far, far too hard than is actually necessary to play the bass. Check out this video from Gary Willis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHEqQzbGAc

[mid_life_crisis]

If you are holding it that way because you feel like you have to hold up the neck, perhaps you could do what another poster did with his and move the strap button to the back of the neck. You could tie it with a piece of string at different positions until you find one that gives you a comfortable balance and then move the button. Of course that might negatively affect resale value if it is a nice bass so you'd need to take that into consideration. Seems like a tricky move though, I'd be leery of hitting the truss rod or screwing something up. If I did it I'd probably drill the pilot hole all the way through...

[MysticMichael]

All this talk of getting a different strap and/or of adjusting the strap differently is way off the mark (except for correctly adjusting the playing height of the instrument). Any decent-quality strap will suffice. The issue is with the actual playing technique itself:

• Anchor the thumb of the fretting hand at or near the center of the back of the neck.
• Arch the fingers and try to fret on or close to the tips of the fingers.
• Maintain a low to medium-low string action, so you can play with a relatively light touch.
• Try to keep your wrist straight by using your arm to move up and down the length of the neck - not by turning your wrist to reach different positions.
• Adjust the instrument to hang high enough on the strap so that you can have it at the right height and playing angle for maximum ease of playing - while keeping your wrist straight.
• Relax your hands - both hands. It's MUCH easier to play when you're physically relaxed, than when you're tense.

MM

[tobie]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Another very important aspect of left hand technique is getting the left hand to apply as small amount of pressure as possible to the fretboard.

This ^^^

For some reason the natural rookie tendency is to 'pinch' the neck between thumb & remaining fingers. Alex Sampson has a great tip in his bassguitarsecrets course and I do it every now and again when I feel that I start putting too much pressure on the thumb: practice for some time without the thumb touching the neck at all. It might sound like a weird idea, but it's not. I got used to it within 10 minutes.

Once you feel at home doing it, bring the thumb back into the picture with just enough pressure to allow your fretting hand to effortlessly move up and down the neck. When the old habbit returns (it will), repeat the above process until it disappears in total.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Thanks for posting Here's a link to the related blog article...

http://adamneely.com/2010/07/17/that-pesky-left-hand/

This is exactly what I needed. I've been struggling with my left hand position since I picked up the instrument. My teacher is from the "thumb up" school and I'm going to put my foot down now. I'm fifty with bad joints to begin with: I don't need to play incorrectly and hurt myself.

[countrybassist]

My left hand technique is great IMO. I keep my wrist bent and my thumb like I'm hitch hiking. The joint in my thumb rests just below the lower curve of the neck with my other fingers as parallel to the frets as possible.