Making a 3-piece sound fuller?

[Man with an Axe]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E8xQc4WKV-A


I REALLY like this band (so does Marcus Alan, lest I be mistaken... ) and this is my favorite song of theirs, but when you listen to them play live, it sounds like there are these giant, gaping holes in their playing where it sounds for lack of a better term, dead.

Is there a trick to sounding really full as a instrumental-trio a'la Zeppelin, The Who, Jimi Hendrix, SRV+Double Trouble, or Greg Koch and the Tone Controls?

[xifr]

Don't scoop. Boosting mids is good, or you can leave everything flat (Hendrix just turned all the knobs on his amp to 10 to get maximun volume). But yeah, the EQ is very important.

[SuperSnake2012]

Make sure to have creative bass lines and fills... worked great for Rush. They have one guitarist, one bassist and one drummer and it works great because Geddy fills up any gaps there might be with bass fills.

[perfektspace6]

Sorry but I've got to say that it can't be a trio with more than 3 people in the band even if the singer is the 4th member. Changes the whole dynamic and challenge of just 3 guys on stage.

edit: by the way, I'm not sure what that clip you posted is but its a good example of how not to sound full with 3 instrumentalists. The bassist sounded like he was playing through a tin can.

[Man with an Axe]

The clip is a Japanese band called "Larc-en-Ciel." This is a very, very early performance of a song they don't do live anymore, but it just sounds... empty


edit: perfektspace: Yea. I know what you're saying. That's why I was careful to say "instrumental-trio," because all I cared about were the instruments. You're the more correct one here, though.

[DigthemLows]

Play big open notes, let them ring while doing fills, and don't follow the drums or the guitar, just add to it. I usually follow the vocals more, tends to make a trio sound bigger and fuller. I can't remember who said this quote, but it's hanging right near me at our practice space.

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there"

[Unknowndude]

I sing and play in my band, and there's three of us. I boost my mids on my EQ and that helps with presence a bit, I try to add to the song and not just play roots or whatever during parts where I'm not singing, and I use pedals to add variety to my sound (although that might change, I'm thinking of ditching most of my effects).

[molsen]

a overdrive and distortion on the bass often helps create enough harmonic content to make it sound like there's more to the sound (because there is) and can help fill things out really well. and yea...MIDS MIDS MIDS

[CDuff]

I'm not a huge fan of theirs but, for me, the biggest sounding 3 piece I've ever heard is Muse. Never mind actually seeing them live, watching a televised concert of theirs shows just how full they sound. Chris uses a LOT of rich fuzz on his bass and often uses a bass synth, Dom is a seriously solid drummer and Matt plays guitar and piano so they really fill the whole sonic spectrum. If you can afford it, and if it suits the kind of music you're making, I'd recommend live sampling to add another member, so to speak.

[brothertupelo]

the reason they sound empty is that everyone's playing really really simple lines. the singer's quiet half the time, and even the drummer doesn't really fill much space, and what they are playing isn't anything special or original. there's nothing to attract your ears half the time, which is why it seems so empty. 4 uninteresting guys playing uninteresting music.

[Thangfish]

Originally Posted by DigthemLows

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there"

-Miles Davis

[chaosMK]

Yeah... mids.

I am thinking a bass with good midrange, an SVT-II and Ampeg fridge.

I play with one guitarist and a drummer. My approach has never been the standard root note thing. I always try and make complementary parts, depending what's needed. People say that our band sounds like each of us is trying to outdo each other.

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Man with an Axe

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E8xQc4WKV-A


I REALLY like this band (so does Marcus Alan, lest I be mistaken... ) and this is my favorite song of theirs, but when you listen to them play live, it sounds like there are these giant, gaping holes in their playing where it sounds for lack of a better term, dead.

Is there a trick to sounding really full as a instrumental-trio a'la Zeppelin, The Who, Jimi Hendrix, SRV+Double Trouble, or Greg Koch and the Tone Controls?

I love L'Arc's music =)

What you have to keep in mind though is that the recording you posted is well over 10 years old, when L'Arc was still developing their sound, particularly live. If you continue on through their progression from album to album (and watch the venues get larger, and larger) a dramatic change is evident, particularly in the dynamics of their sound. For the most part though, I chalk it up to lousy acoustics and a bad recording for that rendition of Shutting From The Sky. Another thing though, I would really not refer to L'Arc as a 3-piece act. Hyde often plays guitar as well, and his creative input really shapes the dynamics of the music quite a bit. Earlier on, the majority of arrangements were made by Tetsu but as the band continued, Hyde, as well as Ken, and eventually their drummer (their current one that is) Yukihiro began scoring as well. It's really noticeable too. Ken likes guitar-driven rock. Tetsu likes the more elaborate arrangements with keys, synths, and strings. Yukihiro is a fan of techno, and electronica. Hyde is into GnR, and punk-rock, but can also do the occasional ballad. So yeah, I would not call them a 3-piece.

Originally Posted by perfektspace6

by the way, I'm not sure what that clip you posted is but its a good example of how not to sound full with 3 instrumentalists. The bassist sounded like he was playing through a tin can.

Again, that is a really bad clip of L'Arc. Tetsu specifically plays some really melodic stuff that adds a really meshes really well with the vocals, guitar, and drums.

/fanboy mode off

[joelb79]

I find that writing more melodic bass lines that more follow the guitar helps thicken things out. Fills aside, the least notes possible is my always-approach to playing bass, and i find that harmonics and chords can nicely fill in the spaces.

[visa]

l'arc has since then become a really awesome, full sounding band, and i suggest you listen to some of their newer recordings. youtube "awake tour" and see what you get. some awesome, full sounding stuff.

[The BurgerMeister]

MIDS for sure. maybe an overdrive and an octaver.

you may want to pose this question in the Effects forum, as well. though they'll probably yell at you for not using the search function. but it's pretty hard to search for what you're asking... search for 'octaver' and i'm sure you'll find some interesting info. good luck!

[Man with an Axe]

Originally Posted by Marcus Alan

I love L'Arc's music =)

What you have to keep in mind though is that the recording you posted is well over 10 years old, when L'Arc was still developing their sound, particularly live. If you continue on through their progression from album to album (and watch the venues get larger, and larger) a dramatic change is evident, particularly in the dynamics of their sound. For the most part though, I chalk it up to lousy acoustics and a bad recording for that rendition of Shutting From The Sky. Another thing though, I would really not refer to L'Arc as a 3-piece act. Hyde often plays guitar as well, and his creative input really shapes the dynamics of the music quite a bit. Earlier on, the majority of arrangements were made by Tetsu but as the band continued, Hyde, as well as Ken, and eventually their drummer (their current one that is) Yukihiro began scoring as well. It's really noticeable too. Ken likes guitar-driven rock. Tetsu likes the more elaborate arrangements with keys, synths, and strings. Yukihiro is a fan of techno, and electronica. Hyde is into GnR, and punk-rock, but can also do the occasional ballad. So yeah, I would not call them a 3-piece.



Again, that is a really bad clip of L'Arc. Tetsu specifically plays some really melodic stuff that adds a really meshes really well with the vocals, guitar, and drums.

/fanboy mode off

This is what I get for being an X-Japan / hide fan, eh?

[agreatheight]

Distortion helps - Muse has been mentioned already, so I'll throw the mighty King's X. King's X is probably my favorite three piece - big punchy drums, full and intricate guitars, fat, grindy big bass (sometimes a 12 string) and lots of vocal harmonies... nice

Peep these:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oiQ6R34-uz4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mABTVsKHwVM

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Man with an Axe

This is what I get for being an X-Japan / hide fan, eh?

Heh, yeah, you X-Japan fans are strange ones, then again, I dig a lot of visual kei as well so I should not talk ^_^;;

[Man with an Axe]

Originally Posted by Marcus Alan

Heh, yeah, you X-Japan fans are strange ones, then again, I dig a lot of visual kei as well so I should not talk ^_^;;

I used to be the token white dude in an X-Japan cover band... I didn't do the VK stuff, I'd look ridiculous.

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