Is Mel Bay Correct?

[lisakki]

I'm sorry for asking this again, I promise this will be the last thread.

I took a picture of the page in the book that I learned how to use the right hand in, here is the picture and directions in question:



Note the "the first and second fingers are held relatively straight, (slightly curved), at almost 45 degree angle in the direction of the bridge.

This is the way I've been playing the bass since I started, but I've never seen anyone else play it like this. Most people don't curve their fingers toward the bridge at all, instead keeping it straight and perpendicular to the strings. Is this method outdated, or is it okay to play it this way? It's the most comfortable method I've used, so I wondered why no one else used it.

[msiner]

I have this book as well. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to play. While this style is used less by bass guitarist, I believe it is closer to the typical way to play a double bass where you play more with the side of you finger than the tip. This looks like a bit of a combination of using the tip and side. To me, this way is a little uncomfortable with most bass guitars because it forces a weird bend in your wrist and hand.

[J.D.B.]

I've seen Tony Levin play that way. Made me think of playing on an upright, too.

Josh

[JimmyM]

A lot of upright doublers play that way on electric (see Clarke, Stanley). However, Stanley's on record recently saying that he thinks he should have kept a straight wrist and not angle the hand like an upright player. I've tried it, and it's not dangerous for your hand or anything as long as you don't go all extreme with it, but I think Stanley's right that he should have kept a straight wrist and hand.

Gotta say, though...Mel looks great in those pics for a guy who's been dead for 12 years

[fish slapper]

Yeah, that's kind of the position I fall into when playing Jazz on my fret-less. And yes, I think I got it from DB playing.

[Jools4001]

I use the angled wrist approach when playing over the end of the neck on my fretless. Plucking the string with the side of my finger like a double bass player would gives me more of a double bass sound. BUT....I only do this for effect and when I want that sound, otherwise I'm moving my hand into all sorts of different positions to get different tones. Mostly, my wrist is not bent and my fingers are perpendicular to the strings, but other times they're pointing towards the neck if I'm using a classical guitar finderstyle approach.

BTW, what does Mel say about slap?

[JulienJeff]

I play with an angle, a bit like on the left pic.
I'm not a double bass player. I've played with a pick 90% of the time until last year.
Last year, I started to play with fingers and I do now 90% of the time.
I play like this (with an angle) because so my nails don't touch the strings (I play with the fingers not the nails).. when I play with my hand doing a 90° angle with the strings (right pic above), my nails touch the strings and I don't like the sound. and no, I don't have "long" nails. I cut them every 2 or 3 days

[lisakki]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

A lot of upright doublers play that way on electric (see Clarke, Stanley). However, Stanley's on record recently saying that he thinks he should have kept a straight wrist and not angle the hand like an upright player. I've tried it, and it's not dangerous for your hand or anything as long as you don't go all extreme with it, but I think Stanley's right that he should have kept a straight wrist and hand.

Gotta say, though...Mel looks great in those pics for a guy who's been dead for 12 years

That's not Mel, it's Roger Filiberto:

I think you just mistyped, but yes, it makes you miss the days when performers all wore suits .

Thank you all for your replies. I watched a video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TDTSSOOV20

that basically said that the angle you tilt your hand depends on how comfortable it is for you, and like you guys said there's no right or wrong way. I guess I'll get off the internet now and go back to practicing.

[JimmyM]

I stand corrected. You're right, Roger Filiberto did write the bass books for Mel Bay. Don't know if Roger's still with us, but judging by the age of that pic and the age he looks in the pic, I seriously doubt it

[Christopher]

I think a straight wrist is better ergonomically for bass guitar.

The angled wrist thing works for upright, but puts unnecessary stress on the wrist. It also makes it harder to use the third finger.

[Bongolation]

A giant gesture of support for summarily disregarding arbitrary assertions of "correct" technique, especially in instruction from decades long past.

Here:

I remember a discussion of the awkward control ergonomics of the Stratocaster, particularly the pickup switch placement. I told those griping that they should consider the fact that in 1954, "proper" technique for guitar according to the instruction materials of the day was that the right hand should never touch the guitar.

In 2009, are there many (or any) guitarists who adhere to that technique rule?

That "must" was formulated by players of acoustic orchestral guitar in big bands and is risible for players in the modern age.

[Richard Lindsey]

I'd say that if you can make the angled wrist work, there's nothing wrong with it, but there's no particular reason one should favor it. It is indeed a holdover from DB, and as such not necessarily applicable to BG. IMO it makes more sense when you're holding an instrument more or less vertically (as with the DB) and less sense when you're holding it more or less horizontally (as with the BG). Check out the way classical guitarists play. It's not exactly the same thing, but there is some common ground IMO.

[xzzy]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

I'd say that if you can make the angled wrist work, there's nothing wrong with it, but there's no particular reason one should favor it.

It increases the wear on your wrist, so you'll need to be doubly aware of what your body is telling you. If it starts aching at all you better stop immediately and rethink your playing position.

Some wrists can probably survive the pattern for decades with no problems, but I would imagine that most of us would regret it after several years.

[lonote]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I stand corrected. You're right, Roger Filiberto did write the bass books for Mel Bay. Don't know if Roger's still with us, but judging by the age of that pic and the age he looks in the pic, I seriously doubt it

I had that book in high school...I graduated in 1967.

[skb5string]

Basically this book (Mel Bay 1) was written when the electric bass was very, very young. The Only People playing it were Upright players making a transition to electric, so tech for this instrument was just being developed. I think the idea was the more contact you have with the string, the rounder and warmer the tone. Personally, I do not teach this way...I actually tell my Newbies to skip this page when learning out of this book. To each their own, but the key here is when the book was written and the mentality of that era. Styles have changed.

[lisakki]

I don't play it exactly like that, not nearly as extreme as Roger has it in that picture, but I do play with my fingers slightly slanted against the string.

I'm beyond caring about this now, it just feels more natural to me than keeping my wrist perfectly straight all the time. I can play straight, but once I get to a hard passage I automatically revert back to *slightly* slanted. Nothing like Roger's ridiculous bend, but slightly slanted to that side.

Plus, I have nails that look something like this:


It's nearly impossible for me to play perfectly straight without hitting a nail at some point, even if I trim my nails to their shortest. I've always wondered if there were any bass players with nails similar to mine, I thought before of quitting bass because my nails were simply not suited to it.

[JulienJeff]

Originally Posted by lisakki

I don't play it exactly like that, not nearly as extreme as Roger has it in that picture, but I do play with my fingers slightly slanted against the string.

I'm beyond caring about this now, it just feels more natural to me than keeping my wrist perfectly straight all the time. I can play straight, but once I get to a hard passage I automatically revert back to *slightly* slanted. Nothing like Roger's ridiculous bend, but slightly slanted to that side.

Plus, I have nails that look something like this:


It's nearly impossible for me to play perfectly straight without hitting a nail at some point, even if I trim my nails to their shortest. I've always wondered if there were any bass players with nails similar to mine, I thought before of quitting bass because my nails were simply not suited to it.

same here. and that's the reason why I don't play with my fingers doing a 90° angle with the strings. If I do, my nails always touch the strings and I don't like it

[Crazyeelboy]

Lordy! The Roger Filiberto book was my first bass book. That takes me back a few...decades!

[jaywa]

Look at someone who is playing an upright. Now look at someone playing an electric (standing). The configurations, angles and proportions (length of scale) are completely different.

These are two totally different instruments that just happen to have the same number of strings, tuned to the same pitches. To think that upright technique can (or should) be strictly translated over to electric bass is ludicrous. As another example, in upright technique you are never supposed to fret with your ring finger, yet how many electric bassists use that finger all the time?

But you have to keep in mind, the very earliest Electric Bass instructional books were largely targeting upright players who had to (sometimes very quickly) switch from upright to electric (aka "Fender bass") if they were going to get (or keep) work. So I'm certain the idea of the early authors was to borrow as much from upright technique as possible to allow for the easiest transition.

In that respect, electric (6-string) guitarists really had a lot easier go of it in the early days transitioning to electric bass than upright bassists did. The playing position was much more familiar (even though string gauge and scale length of course were dramatically different).

[jaywa]

BTW, what kind of bass is that in the pics the OP put up?

That thing has some serious retro-cool vibe goin on!