Metronome for jazz recording?

maturanesa · #1 08-30-2010, 10:01 PM

Some people say metronome in jazz mess the overall feel and improvisation. I personally think it depends on the song. I like metronome in all genres, but in some instrumental "free" jazz is too annoying and perturb the connection between the members playing at the same time..

NickCormier · #2 08-31-2010, 12:50 AM

well I think you'd need some kinda swing metronome (do they make those?).. that should work for almost all forms of jazz except for "free" jazz.. which is usually timed too, just not by conventional methods.

seventhson · #3 08-31-2010, 01:06 AM

Emily Remler...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiO3er5yHNo

she explains metronome usage in part 2...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAVQ3...eature=related

sleeplessknight · #4 08-31-2010, 04:25 AM

Set up your metronome to "click" on the 2 and the 4, you should have no problems swinging like a mofo when the 1 and the 3 are up to you. Also, once you get comfortable with that, have the metronome click on the 2 *or* the 4, so the remaining 3 beats are up to you. That'll get you swingin' so hard, freaky couples in Vegas will look on in jealousy! ;-)

Bruce Lindfield · #5 08-31-2010, 05:36 AM

It depends on the music - some Jazz I have heard, deliberately slows down and speeds up or changes time signature during the piece..?

crow01 · #6 08-31-2010, 03:16 PM

if you play jazz your either a professional musician or you are just very good. therefore no metronome.
unless you are talking about a high school band.

**Pacman** · #7 08-31-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crow01

if you play jazz your either a professional musician or you are just very good. therefore no metronome.
unless you are talking about a high school band.

Gordon Goodwin, one of the best big band leaders in business these days, always records with a click.

whatiswhat · #8 08-31-2010, 03:22 PM

I use a Korg drumpad with ableton live to create drumlines and no longer use a metronome. Some people may disagree with this, but it works great for me

robertinventor · #9 08-31-2010, 05:30 PM

I've made a swing metronome, called Bounce Metronome Pro. The Gravity Bounce visuals help you to play swing because they let you anticipate and see each swung note coming. It's like anticipating the moment when a bouncing ball will hit the ground or your hand, something we can do naturally and easily.

You can set any amount of swing from a gentle lilt all the way up to hard swing and beyond.

It also has polyrhythms, mixed meters, even mixed meters liKE 4/4 + 7/8 and polyrhythms like 4/4 over 4/3 so lots to interest a Jazz player, and many users of the program are Jazz musicians.

Swing Metronome

It's fairly new - first release last year, and many of the newest features were introduced only in the last month or so. Got a good review in Sound on Sound magazine in January of this year and lots of positive feedback from forums and users of the software.

Interested in any comments, suggestions and ideas for improving it further.

Thanks,

Quote:

well I think you'd need some kinda swing metronome (do they make those?).. that should work for almost all forms of jazz except for "free" jazz.. which is usually timed too, just not by conventional methods.

robertinventor · #10 08-31-2010, 05:33 PM

I've made a swing metronome, called Bounce Metronome Pro. The Gravity Bounce visuals help you to play swing because they let you anticipate and see each swung note coming. It's like anticipating the moment when a bouncing ball will hit the ground or your hand, something we can do naturally and easily.

You can set any amount of swing from a gentle lilt all the way up to hard swing and beyond.

It also has polyrhythms, mixed meters, even mixed meters liKE 4/4 + 7/8 and polyrhythms like 4/4 over 4/3 so lots to interest a Jazz player, and many users of the program are Jazz musicians.

Swing Metronome

It's fairly new - first release last year, and many of the newest features were introduced only in the last month or so. Got a good review in Sound on Sound magazine in January of this year and lots of positive feedback from forums and users of the software.

Interested in any comments, suggestions and ideas for improving it further.

Thanks,

Quote:

well I think you'd need some kinda swing metronome (do they make those?).. that should work for almost all forms of jazz except for "free" jazz.. which is usually timed too, just not by conventional methods.

Asher S · #11 09-01-2010, 06:05 AM

Pat Metheny, who is recognized for his impeccable sense of time (and many other attributes), demonstrating one of his practice techniques:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJm-vFhZQOw

I think a musician needs to have an excellent sense of time first, and will then be better able to control tempo changes & variations rather than be controlled by them.

jazzgeek79 · #12 09-01-2010, 06:20 AM

I have been told by someone who worked with Peters Erskine that he prefers working with a click. I think the trick is to be able to place your beat were you want it in relation to the kick. In other words, do the whole metronome on 2 and 4 thing. It works really well.

Bruce Lindfield · #13 09-01-2010, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher S

Pat Metheny, who is recognized for his impeccable sense of time (and many other attributes), demonstrating one of his practice techniques:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJm-vFhZQOw

I think a musician needs to have an excellent sense of time first, and will then be better able to control tempo changes & variations rather than be controlled by them.

Well - practice is practice, but that's a bit different from using one in performance, which is what this thread is about...?

KJung · #14 09-01-2010, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher S

Pat Metheny, who is recognized for his impeccable sense of time (and many other attributes), demonstrating one of his practice techniques:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJm-vFhZQOw

I think a musician needs to have an excellent sense of time first, and will then be better able to control tempo changes & variations rather than be controlled by them.

Amazing that Pat can even make that click sound like it is swinging! Practicing with the click on 2 and 4 is a very good thing when playing straight ahead tunes.

Bruce Lindfield · #15 09-01-2010, 06:30 AM

No doubt it's a useful practice tool for certain styles - but as I was saying there are certain Jazz recordings where it just wouldn't work - so a lot of Paul Motian's trio stuff on ECM is out of time, rubato - just wouldn't work with a click!

RedLeg · #16 09-01-2010, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeplessknight

Set up your metronome to "click" on the 2 and the 4, you should have no problems swinging like a mofo when the 1 and the 3 are up to you.

click 2 & 4, know where 1 & 3 are always, you should get the swing of things

Quote:

Originally Posted by crow01

if you play jazz your either a professional musician or you are just very good. therefore no metronome.
unless you are talking about a high school band.

foolish and arrogant advice.

I own a Boss DB-60 and find them indispensable, especially the 2-3 and 3-2 claves.

Bruce Lindfield · #17 09-01-2010, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLeg

cli

foolish and arrogant advice.

I own a Boss DB-60 and find them indispensable, especially the 2-3 and 3-2 claves.

I think you are misreading what this thread is about - so there is no doubt that many pro Jazz players use a metronome for practice - but this particular thread is asking about using one in performance and I can't imagine that many do this?

I have been to hundreds and hundreds of Jazz gigs and never seen a metronome on stage and as I mentioned - many Jazz recordings have "out of time" or rubato passages which would mean that a metronome or click could not be used!

Asher S · #18 09-01-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Well - practice is practice, but that's a bit different from using one in performance, which is what this thread is about...?

Actually, the title of the thread is "Metronome for jazz recording", not (live) performance. I think some jazz recording artists use a metronome in the studio, be it audio and/or visual.

Chris K · #19 09-01-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher S

I think a musician needs to have an excellent sense of time first, and will then be better able to control tempo changes & variations rather than be controlled by them.

+1000

Metronome:
For practice, yes.
To know the initial tempo, maybe
To perform, never.

Same goes for playing along with soundtracks, electronic drums etc.

Bruce Lindfield · #20 09-01-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher S

Actually, the title of the thread is "Metronome for jazz recording", not (live) performance. I think some jazz recording artists use a metronome in the studio, be it audio and/or visual.

Well, if you are talking about Jazz - then a recording is performance!

I would maintain that 99% of Jazz recordings - including all the "Classics" on Blue Note etc. were not recorded with a metronome or click!

There are many books about the classic Jazz recordings and it was always a case of pointing a mic at a performance in the studio. Also many Jazz records are from live recordings!

EDIT as a PS for these purposes, I consider Smooth Jazz not to be Jazz at all! !