minor chord progression helpp

max8899 · #1 03-06-2009, 05:49 AM

just a quick q.
what is the order of the chords in terms or minor and major in a minor key
e.g. major is maj min min maj maj min dim maj (i think)
what is it in a miinor key
and just an extra shred of help what the major triads of these chords be in, say f# minor

cowsgomoo · #2 03-06-2009, 06:03 AM

not as simple as that, grasshopper! there are a variety of chords depending on what flavour of minor you're using...

e.g. harmonic minor exists to give you a dominant chord (hence a leading tone to the root of the I) on the V... melodic minor ascending has a major 3rd on the IV chord... all these things cascade down to the other chords in the key, giving you some weird & wonderful chords that don't work how you might expect...

the others'll fill you in...

max8899 · #3 03-06-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowsgomoo

not as simple as that, grasshopper! there are a variety of chords depending on what flavour of minor you're using...

e.g. harmonic minor exists to give you a dominant chord (hence a leading tone to the root of the I) on the V... melodic minor ascending has a major 3rd on the IV chord... all these things cascade down to the other chords in the key, giving you some weird & wonderful chords that don't work how you might expect...

the others'll fill you in...

harmonic minor pleeeze

JTE · #4 03-06-2009, 10:01 AM

I could give it to you, but that's kind of pointless for learning anything. I'd rather teach you to fish than give you one fish... (assuming you know the proverb about giving a man a fish to feed him for one day, or teaching him to fish to feed him for the rest of his life).

So, here's the question... Do you know WHY the chords of a major scale are Maj7, min7, min7, Maj7, Dom7, Min7, Min7b5? If so, then it's really easy to figure out the chords of any other scale (although naming some of them could be problematic, but that's a whole 'nother issue).

If not, then dig this.

Write out your major scale, the stack thirds on top until you have four-note chords.

So, start with the scale..

C D E F G A B C

Stack thirds on top of it..

E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

Add another level of thirds...

G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

And one more time...

B C D E F G A B
G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

Now, anlayze those six SEVEN chords and make sure you know WHY it's Cmaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, Fmaj7, G7, Amin7, and Bmin7b5.

Once you have that, then repeat the exercise with a natural minor scale, the harmonic minor, and the melodic minor... Show us your work and there's a lot of people who'll help you learn this stuff.

jte

warnergt · #5 03-06-2009, 11:00 AM

JTE · #6 03-06-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warnergt

Wouldn't it look like this with the last row of thirds stacked on top?

B C D E F G A B
G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C

And wouldn't that be 7 (not 6) chords to analyze?

DOH!!!

You're right on both counts. I'll edit the post to make it correct- thanks for proofreading for me!

jte

mambo4 · #7 03-06-2009, 01:47 PM

Harmonic minor (i believe)

imin (maj7)
ii m7b5
bIII aug
iv min7
V7 dom7
bVI maj7
vii dim7

but yeah, learn the rules of construction rather than memorizing

JTE · #8 03-06-2009, 03:36 PM

The three chord in a harmonic minor isn't an augmented, it's a major 7 sharp 5. The notes from A harmonic minor are C, E, G#, B. Caug would be C, E, G# B## (augmented chords are all major thirds) but the interval from 5 to 7 in C E G# B is a minor third.

jte

Ed Fuqua · #9 03-06-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

I could give it to you, but that's kind of pointless for learning anything. I'd rather teach you to fish than give you one fish... (assuming you know the proverb about giving a man a fish to feed him for one day, or teaching him to fish to feed him for the rest of his life).
jte

I thought that went "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you're rid of him for the whole weekend."

WJGreer · #10 03-06-2009, 03:43 PM

...or, "Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for an evening. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life."

JTE · #11 03-06-2009, 03:49 PM

Or maybe it's "Give a man a fish and your feed him for one day, teach a man to fish and he's gotta buy a boat!"....

jte

Projectile · #12 03-06-2009, 03:54 PM

In harmonic minor:
min dim maj min maj maj dim/maj(?)

In natural minor:
min dim maj min min maj maj

JtheJazzMan · #13 03-06-2009, 04:30 PM

i think i wrote an explanation once before.

when you say youre playing a minor key, more than likely you are playing a chord progression where the tonal centre is the Aeolian mode. you will still be using mainly 7 tone ordinary major scales to create most of the chords, and substituting a few chords. the most obvious substitution is using a harmonic minor scale to give you a dominant 7th chord as the V chord.

ie, most obvious example would be a piece in A natural minor, you could substitute A harmonic minor when playing the V chord which will give you E Mixo b9 b13.

You could also use E Spanish Phrygian, or even E Altered dominant scale. But you dont have to. Diatonically the V chord is minor (the phyrgian mode) and that is also used as well.

Aeolian isnt the only minor mode you can use as the tonal centre either, but its the most common. I cant recall seeing a piece of music that used ONLY modes of harmonic minor. This is why i dont like to use the phrase "minor key", i prefer to say minor tonality, or minor tonal centre.

slybass3000 · #14 03-06-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Projectile

In harmonic minor:
min dim maj min maj maj dim

In natural minor:
min dim maj min min maj maj

IMO this is the best answer (even if there are some errors in the name of the chords quality here in there) and I would probably favor the natural minor for most of it and use the V7 chord from the minor harmonic to get the tritone in the V7 instead of the Vmin which might be cool sounding in certain styles of music.

Sly

Projectile · #15 03-06-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slybass3000

IMO this is the best answer (even if there are some errors in the name of the chords quality here in there) and I would probably favor the natural minor for most of it and use the V7 chord from the minor harmonic to get the tritone in the V7 instead of the Vmin which might be cool sounding in certain styles of music.

Sly

I'm aware that the VII chord in harmonic minor isn't technically a diminished triad because it has a major 3rd, but then what in the heck is it??? It's been too long since I've been in a music theory class, and I just don't remember these things. I'll edit my original post to reflect the error. There are plenty of people in on this forum that have a far better grasp of theory than I do, but I didn't see anyone giving the OP a straight and direct answer to his question, so I did my best.

JtheJazzMan · #16 03-06-2009, 09:39 PM

it could work as a diminished. diminished can have a major 3rd (diminished 11 i guess you argue) as an extension like half-whole tone dim scale