My created bass lines vs. my improv bass lines

[cheesemonkey]

It seem when ever i make a bass line i usually make it a slap line and it sounds nice and funky but whenever i improv off of it (i at them moment only improv finger style since i can't impov with slap that well) it usually ends up sounding really bluesly or soft rockish. Anyone else find that their improv sounds like one type of genre whenever they play?

[mothmonsterman]

Well i don't really hear it as the same genre all the time,
But i definitely (and i think we all do) play alot of the same patterns we're used to.
The only thing that's helped me so far is practicing improve with both prerecorded drum loops and with my drummer at practices, not if only i can get my drummer to hold tempo and stop being a kind of 3 trick pony i'll be in business.

I see it with him alot he can write when we are writing but when it comes to improve he really only has like 43 or for beats. Me? I tend to stick with the major scale all the freaking time at it's frustrating.

[StyleOverShow]

Yeah, I get tired of my solo right away. Have heard it before kind of thing.

Working off the melody is a start and then there's always the tricks: octave up/down;
cut time to full; and repetitive ascending/descending short patterns.

I don't believe the bass is a solo instrument and the absence of Stanley Clarke mentioned hardly anywhere on these pages speaks to that (and on lead bass...).

The bass wave/sound has a lot to do with it.

[jayarroz]

yah just need to built a larger amount of sounds in your brain, and places to put them. Learn your modes! Transcribe a ton of other solo's then one day they all melt together to make your own solo.

[MarkTAW]

I often wonder where my musical "voice" comes from - it's like an aspect of my personality that isn't 100% connected to the rest of my personality.

My guess is you don't know how to use dissonance, call/response, voice leading, etc. and you've just learned enough theory to make things sound "pretty."

[cheesemonkey]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

My guess is you don't know how to use dissonance, call/response, voice leading, etc. and you've just learned enough theory to make things sound "pretty."

well my improv is just improv not really basesed on theory other than the fact that i keep it in the correct key most of the time. I do tend to play the blue scale often during solos... and i listen to several different types of music and i don't really listen to blues at all yet all my solos sound bluesy. I listen to funk rock and a bit of jazz and motown for the most part

[uethanian]

if your stuck playing in box patterns that will make it sound rockish. what kind of music are you playing? if its jazz, learn some bebop stuff.

[namraj]

I don't like playing slap, except as a drill so that I can play slap if i ever need to, but as improv goes most of my written lines have a very strict groove and are normally written from improv, however when I improv of the line i tend to make my playing more fluid and let it move from the beat and key alittle more (my band has quite alot of jazz influence) so although it doesn't sound like a different genre it does have a different feel when I move from the line, but this is intentional.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by cheesemonkey

well my improv is just improv not really basesed on theory other than the fact that i keep it in the correct key most of the time. I do tend to play the blue scale often during solos... and i listen to several different types of music and i don't really listen to blues at all yet all my solos sound bluesy. I listen to funk rock and a bit of jazz and motown for the most part

Start with some new pentatonic scale forms. The blues scale is a pentatonic minor that uses 1, 3, 4, 5, 7 from a minor scale.

Try one that uses the OTHER notes (2, 6) from the minor scale, say:

1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7. This one happens to be known as the Hirajoshi scale.

Next try one with, say, 1, b2, 4, 5, 6, which is just a different mode of the above scale.

When you get bored with that, play diatonic scales, but play every note NOT in the tonic triad for the key you're in. (note the ii chord does this, as does the V chord to some extent - which is part of their charm.) It'll be such a relief when you finally return to the tonic triad the audience will feel it.

[cheesemonkey]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Start with some new pentatonic scale forms. The blues scale is a pentatonic minor that uses 1, 3, 4, 5, 7 from a minor scale.

actually blues is root 3 4 4# 5 7

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by cheesemonkey

actually blues is root 3 4 4# 5 7

I was simplifying for the sake of argument. Does the fact that my post lacks the words "plus a tritone" somehow invalidate any of the actual points I made? You say you exclusively use the blues scale and then complain that all your lines sound like *gasp* rock. I offer a couple of other scales and your comment is "uh, I also play a flat fifth?" That's gratitude for ya.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

I was simplifying for the sake of argument. Does the fact that my post lacks the words "plus a tritone" somehow invalidate any of the actual points I made? You say you exclusively use the blues scale and then complain that all your lines sound like *gasp* rock. I offer a couple of other scales and your comment is "uh, I also play a flat fifth?" That's gratitude for ya.

I have to agree with this.

But you both are wrong. The blues scale is 1, b3, 4, 5, b7.

[nysbob]

There is no one blues scale. it depends on the color of the tune.

[wazzel]

Make some finger style (or pick) bass lines and work on extending your playing. I don't like to solo, but most of what I do is improv over chords and keyboardist. I have played many styles of music so I can pick up the feel of a tune really quickly. Sometimes the best fills ar just two or three notes and other times it is a two octive rip.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I have to agree with this.

But you both are wrong. The blues scale is 1, b3, 4, 5, b7.

Not if you're in a minor key. Then those notes are spelled as natural & not flat.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Not if you're in a minor key. Then those notes are spelled as natural & not flat.

Nope. That kind of nomenclature refers to interval type, not a degree of any particular scale or tonality. What if, for example, you were trying to notate a minor second? Both the minor and major keys contain major seconds. Adding on to the fact, the blues scale is very often used on top of major dominant 7th harmony versus minor key harmony, and then its not clearly major or minor anyway you slice it, so you have to rely on intervallic quality.

Besides, he was wrong anyway. The "blues scale" as taught by academia is 1 b3 4 #4 5 b7 . It's irrelevant anyway, there are actually a lot of "blues" scales and notes.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Nope. That kind of nomenclature refers to interval type, not a degree of any particular scale or tonality. What if, for example, you were trying to notate a minor second? Both the minor and major keys contain major seconds. Adding on to the fact, the blues scale is very often used on top of major dominant 7th harmony versus minor key harmony, and then its not clearly major or minor anyway you slice it, so you have to rely on intervallic quality.

Besides, he was wrong anyway. The "blues scale" as taught by academia is 1 b3 4 #4 5 b7 . It's irrelevant anyway, there are actually a lot of "blues" scales and notes.

My bad. I'm not as good a musical pedant as I thought I was.

::bows to the power of your pedantry::

[corpsegrinder]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

My bad. I'm not as good a musical pedant as I thought I was.

::bows to the power of your pedantry::

pedantry... ha. why don't you all stop being shallow and pedantic?
But seriously, +1 to whoever above said change scales and octaves. remember to switch up your hand shapes as you improv.

[Scot]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

The "blues scale" as taught by academia is 1 b3 4 #4 5 b7 . It's irrelevant anyway, there are actually a lot of "blues" scales and notes.

This is the most accurate response regarding the blues vs. minor pent scales, IMO. The minor pent often gets incorrectly referred to as the "blues scale" but it's the "blue note" (b5) in the blues scale (hence the name) that sets it apart from the minor pent. Both (and others) are extensively used in the music commonly referred to as "blues".

Regarding the original question, improvisation is composition in real time. The better you get with hearing ideas in your head and playing them on the bass the more your improvised lines will sound like your composed ones. Unfortunately, not a lot of shortcuts here. Try singing the stuff you hear first then play it on your bass. Don't just wiggle your fingers in familiar ways and hope for the best. If you're not hearing something in your head first when you improvise on your composed lines it's probably best to just stick to the composed line.

[mattblissett]

I have found since we started our jam night, that I am having similar trouble, so now I have looked at how and why I play certain things, and looked at different chord voicings, and modes and its made a difference to my playing.