Is my intonation bad?

[bassistpatrick]

I play an unlined fretless, and I am constantly obsessing about my intonation. I know it's not possible to play every single note perfectly in tune, but what would be considered good intonation? When I check with a tuner, I find that some notes I play dead on, others are within either 10 cents sharp or flat, or sometimes around 15 cents sharp or flat.

[jsbass]

Don't worry about it, as long as it is that close, no one will notice

[All_¥our_Bass]

Also rember that playing the same notes as a fretted will sometiumes be difficult because non-tempered intervals sound much more "right" than tempered ones, since they are always slightly flatter or sharper than the tempered ones.

[WillBuckingham]

Originally Posted by All_¥our_Bass

Also rember that playing the same notes as a fretted will sometiumes be difficult because non-tempered intervals sound much more "right" than tempered ones, since they are always slightly flatter or sharper than the tempered ones.

Maybe. But if you're playing with a guitarist or keyboardist, they're the ones that are gonna sound "right", if you're not in tune with them.

[MarkTAW]

What are you asking us for? Ask someone who can hear you play. All you'll get from us is a bunch of dilettantes pontificating about the merits of this or that temperment.

If you're not sure.

1. Ask someone whose opinion you trust who can hear you.
2. Record yourself with the band & play it back and see how it sounds.
3. Work on your ear training so that any discrepancies between 1 & 2 narrow.

[MarkTAW]

Oh and here's a really great exercise. If you have the dough, get a home recording rig & get autotune. I may be able to point you to some freeware alternatives, I'm not 100% about that though and not sure they'll work as well as the real thing.

autotune rocks for checking you intonation.

1. It'll give you a "correct" version of what you played to A/B with.
2. It will show you in real time when you're going sharp or flat providing much needed feedback so you can learn much faster what sharp or flat sounds like.

Never tried auto tune on bass, so I don't know how good the results are, hopefully it's enough to work as a learning tool.

[Bass_Machine]

I wouldn't fuss about being absolutely perfectly in tune. For me, a lot of the character of a fretless that I love so much is that it's sometimes ever so slightly out of tune. It's part of what makes a fretless a fretless.

[MichaelScott]

Buy a fretless with lines- then you won't worry about it... or at least you won't worry as much.

[Bassist4Life]

Don't worry about it too much. Do you best to play in tune in every situation. Use a tuner when you practice and use your ear all the time.

When you're playing with non-fretted & non-keyboard instruments, intonation is relative.

For a major triad the 3rd needs to be a little flat to sound in tune.

Joe

[Bass]

I know how you feel. I've been playing upright for a little over a month, and I'm always wondering if I'm in tune. I don't really trust my ears, so I asked the bandmates if it sounds about right. "Yeah it sounds fine." Maybe they're being nice, but probably I'm playing close enough.

I asked the teacher, "how close is close enough?" She chuckled and said that's a good topic for a phd.

Close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades? Probably in fretless bass too.

I've been practicing a half step / whole step interval exercise that I think helps with my ear, intonation and fingerstrength. I work up and down the strings up to the seventh fret in the following manner: G G# A G# G A G, G# A Bb A G# Bb G#, etc... Or G A G A, G# Bb G# Bb, etc... or G G# G G# etc... I recorded these excercises on three separate tracks on the P-bass, and then I just play along. I recorded a few scales too on a fourth track.

[Oza]

i know this sounds lame, but try using open strings to get a feel for the notes, and then move around from there. I did that and it helped loads

[moopants]

My band teacher tortures the band with tuning CDs. He plays them really loud, and makes us play scales while listening to it. It's painful doing it, but it REALLY helps your intonation. Also, singing the notes (even if you're a bad singer, just at least try it) will help. Victor Wooten plays scales going in half-step intervals all the way up the neck, and then down for practicing right and left hand "agreement", but this also helps on a fretless bass for intonation. Also, try using 1-2-4 for the notes before the 12th "fret" and maybe to 15, depending on what you're playing. The notes past the high C (15th "fret") on the 1st string are close together, and using 1-2-3 is much easier for intonation.

[Alec W. Conway]

Originally Posted by Bass_Machine

I wouldn't fuss about being absolutely perfectly in tune. For me, a lot of the character of a fretless that I love so much is that it's sometimes ever so slightly out of tune. It's part of what makes a fretless a fretless.

+1

Dissonance, when well placed and played, can do marvels.

[tom5string]

Originally Posted by MichaelScott

Buy a fretless with lines- then you won't worry about it... or at least you won't worry as much.

Huhu, depends ... i'm playing a lined FL and find myself constantly ignoring the lines because the guitarist starts to detune. I never played with an-in-tune guitarist in my whole live, by the way.

I'd rather suggest to
- practice practice, practice
- learn trusting your ears - they're by far more sensible than the audiences'
- avoid open strings!
They do not sound fretless and, well see above, you're not able to vary pitch/intonation when required.

What helped me a lot in gaining experience is:
- playalong with recordings, simple stuff where you can concentrate on intonation (Morcheeba is fine for this, e.g.)
- get a sequencer on your computer and record the lines you want to practice with a piano sound and then play parallel to this.

Don't let someone bring you down with too much intonation stuff - fretless playing shall be fun. It's more like singing ...

Tom

[Fretloos]

Originally Posted by tom5string

- avoid open strings!
They do not sound fretless and, well see above, you're not able to vary pitch/intonation when required.

Hmm this is quite the oposite of what my teacher is telling me, if you don't have a guitarist who detunes, isn't it better to have some reference points for yourself? (the open strings)

[tom5string]

Your teacher is right:

It is always useful to have a corrective pitch on the instrument itself, open string, flagoletts. And of course, for practicing alone - see above - i always use a reference pitch (computer, CD ...)

But *my* very opinion and experience through several years of playing is: avoid open strings! Be it fretless or fretted. They sound different - plus you cannot modulate, damp (well, not the way i use damping for staccato playing). In a band context - i like to be able to correct intonation flaws of my colleagues without having to tune - so: avoid ... well :-)

In the end it always comes back to one point - train your ears and then: trust them.

Tom

[Mickey Shane]

I have heard that the human ear is more forgiving of slightly flat, than slightly sharp. Plus, if you hear your note slightly flat, you can easily roll your finger towards yourself a little without a slide sound. Sharp notes tend to stand out as wrong notes.

[MichaelScott]

Originally Posted by tom5string

I never played with an-in-tune guitarist in my whole live, by the way.

Does this mean you never play fretted because you would always be out of tune with your guitarist?

[tom5string]

Originally Posted by MichaelScott

Does this mean you never play fretted because you would always be out of tune with your guitarist?

True, i find myself playing less and less with fretted basses. Of course, pop/slap and heavier stuff do not sound right when played with a fretless, you need to have this certain punch and crispyness. Although sometimes, a pop/slap fretless sounds great, depends on the music.

But then again, when playing fretted i'm one of those nasty "gee-your-not-in-tune" guys. Which is OK during rehearsal - and then you HAVE to be sure that your instrument is not the flat/sharp one. But always leaves me with a bad feel on stage - when you cannot annoy the guitarist all the time :-)


Tom