my teacher says im setting myself up for early hand injury.

huckingfuskie · #1 10-18-2008, 02:03 PM

I've been seeing a music instructor for some time now.lately he says hes noticing that im playing with the pad of my fingers instead of my fingertips and he says that my knuckles are not properly aligned with the neck of my bass.

few questions:

It should be noted that my music instructor is a lead guitarist who can play the bass. Is using your fingertips more of a guitar technique?

and what types of exercies can i do to help improve my left hand posture?

thank you.

VisualShock · #2 10-18-2008, 02:13 PM

I've been told by guitards to use fingertips more than just a flat section of the finger. Personally, I'd say whatever works for you. i do power-chords with index and ring, and nothing else. it doesn't bother me.
I would suggest, however, to warm up, before you play anything technical. play a blink182 song before you play a chili's song ;P

StyleOverShow · #3 10-18-2008, 02:29 PM

Cleanest sound, fretted or fretless, comes from the pinching effect of the string against the fretboard. If your thumb is about centered behind the neck you should find it easier to use the tips of your fingers (rather than the pads). It makes a difference after a while when you want to do more complicated riffs cleanly to use the finger tips, but whatever works for you is cool.

Stumbo · #4 10-18-2008, 02:32 PM

I suggest that learning multiple methods getting sounds out of your bass (pads,tips, pick). No downside to flexibility. You can get different tones that way and play what a song needs to sound good.

atheos · #5 10-18-2008, 02:36 PM

Whatever feels the best for you. IMO there's really not right or wrong style, just multiple different ways to play from which you pick the one that suits you the best.

I play normally with the pad of my fingers but smoothly switch to fingertips when going to higher notes. I can't even hold my left hand "properly aligned" if I play at frets 1-5, that would put my arms in very uncomfortable position.

I'd say you hold you hand the wrong way for you if you feel uncomfortable or your hand hurts. There can't be just one ergonomic way since everybody's arms and hands are different. It has a lot to do with such things as how long you fingers are both overall and compared to each other etc.

Well, I'm not a doctor or anything but I know that I can play easily for hours and hours without any stress in my left hand/arm and that's enough information for me.

Oh I have to add this: I play fast riffs with my pads - it's more precise for me (there's this headbanging issue too...). However I try to play slow notes with my fingertips since that DOES add sustain and reduce clanking.

TOOL460002 · #6 10-18-2008, 07:44 PM

cant really mute when i play with fingertips- and cant play chords with my pads flat against the neck. both are useful.

also- from his style- id imagine rocco prestia would use the pads- and he doesnt suck or have crippled hands.

Jazzdogg · #7 10-18-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huckingfuskie

I've been seeing a music instructor for some time now.lately he says hes noticing that im playing with the pad of my fingers instead of my fingertips and he says that my knuckles are not properly aligned with the neck of my bass.

few questions:

It should be noted that my music instructor is a lead guitarist who can play the bass. Is using your fingertips more of a guitar technique?

and what types of exercies can i do to help improve my left hand posture?

thank you.

What works on guitar isn't necessarily best for bass, or for you - and vice versa. I've seen some extraordinary players with butt-ugly technique, and some players whose technique was letter perfect, but who couldn't find the pocket with a flashlight and a map, and couldn't swing if their lives depended on it.

Electric technique doesn't work for me on DB, but I do use DB left-hand technique on electric under some circumstances. I also use a variant of Rocco's flat-handed left-hand technique when playing ghost notes and muting. But when I'm playing fast articulated lines, my left-hand technique becomes very "proper" with respect to the placement of my left thumb on the back of the neck, and the use of my fingertips tips - because it's what works best for me time after time.

Once you've mastered proper technique, you can do whatever floats your boat. But if you don't have rock-solid tehnique in your playing arsenal, your boat may not float when it comes time to advance to progressively more challenging or complex playing. Why limit yourself?

tomvelsor · #8 10-18-2008, 10:45 PM

your fretting hand were talking about?

its not good what your doing, because it can wear you out fast and lower your endurance. i used to have that left hand caving in issue. where is your strap set? thats likely to be the problem. low strap will give your wrist the angle to make it seem like your fingers feel best collapsing onto pads and not playing with the fingertips.

in genneral this is just something that beginner players do. itll correct itself, i think so atleast. (if your playing how i think you are)

EADG mx · #9 10-19-2008, 01:42 AM

I think your first mistake was taking bass lessons from a guitarist.

Dave Muscato · #10 10-19-2008, 02:16 AM

Watch these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u82A7ILPKHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md8FCeqNrcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrLtogzsc6I

Hope this helps!

huckingfuskie · #11 10-19-2008, 06:27 PM

thank you all. in response to some of your comments:

"I've seen some extraordinary players with butt-ugly technique" Tom Morello? lol.

"I think your first mistake was taking bass lessons from a guitarist"

I said in my original post im seing a -music instructor- mostly for theory. but we jam and he notices things.

This is one of the first times ive questiones my instructor thats why im posting it on TB. My music is my life and it would kill me to not be able to play so im prety scared. Im gonna make an appointment with a hand specialist to see what i can do to prevent those nasty injuries. To be honest i dont think my technique is off anymore, judging by watching other bassists. This is a precaution if you will.

and to the guy who mentioned about low strap, i wear my strap prety perfectly centered, it feels most comfortable to me.

Zak_Bass_86 · #12 10-20-2008, 02:25 AM

well,try ur best not to hurt ur hands during playing the bass. And I suggest that you see a pro bass teacher cuz this way you will avoid the common mistakes that ppl do when they start playing the bass. Listen Carefully to what your teacher says BUT always remember that everything in music relative; there nothing such as 100% right or 100% wrong.

All the best

ysand · #13 10-20-2008, 02:40 AM

Am I the only one that thinks "whatever works for you" is a bad advice?

There ARE proper techniques so you won't limit your playing nor injure yourself, and one of them is what your teacher tells you.

Mine used to tell me the same thing when i started and i've realized it now that using your tips gives you better control, clearer sound, less (if no) pain, and more options of what to do with the fretted note. All u need it to learn to stretch your hand enough so u can do it with all fingers on all positions, and that might take some time, plus wearing your bass not that low.

Paroxysm · #14 10-20-2008, 02:47 AM

Whatever is comfortable with you is good. I personally use the flats of my fingers, as that is the way I learnt to play, but to each their own I guess.

JNowiski · #15 10-20-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huckingfuskie

I've been seeing a music instructor for some time now.lately he says hes noticing that im playing with the pad of my fingers instead of my fingertips and he says that my knuckles are not properly aligned with the neck of my bass.

few questions:

It should be noted that my music instructor is a lead guitarist who can play the bass. Is using your fingertips more of a guitar technique?

and what types of exercies can i do to help improve my left hand posture?

thank you.

that's how i normally play, its just more comfortable for me.

buddyro57 · #16 10-20-2008, 07:26 AM

The "whatever works for you is fine" theory doesn't work in the long term, because some of these issues don't manifest themselves for years. Over my 40 years of playing I have had left hand, right hand, bow grip, all kinds of problems that I had to have an experienced teacher to help me work-through. Your guitar-player teacher is right at least in having concern with the angle of the left hand; it should be more-or-less perpindicular to the fingerboard. There are a couple of rules of thumb to consider;
1. the hand-posture used to play the bass must, as closely as possible, resemble the hand in its natural repose. Hold your hands down by your sides completely relaxed, bring your left hand up to the fingerboard without pressing down the strings, place the tips (the weight-bearing part, not the tips right below the nail) on the strings. Your hands should be pretty much in the right position. If you watch cellists, double bassists, and classical guitarists, you will see a similarity between their left hand postures becuase they all are trained to seek this kind of "natural" positioning.
2. The height and angle of the instrument must always accommodate the hands, never the other way around. This is for you guys who wear the bass too low for looks, you are going to have problems in the future with backs and arms.
Also-Be very careful about the right hand angle, we bassists really do set ourselves up for big problems from years of bending the right hand at an extreme angle to play.
You might think about studying Simandl approach with an upright bass teacher. They (of necessity) have to be concerned about efficient and safe hand position.
Good Luck!
JS

mambo4 · #17 10-20-2008, 09:07 AM

I would say that waaay more important than pads vs tips on the left hand, is the angle of your wrist and the amount of pressure in your grip. Generally i think those are the biggest noob mistakes for left hand fingering.

Your wrist should be as straight as possible, and your bass height and angle should be adjusted to allow this. a bent wrist is asking for trouble down the line.

your grip should be only as hard as necessary to let the note ring clearly without fret rattle - almost every beginner (me included) grips way, WAY harder than necessary.

one reason behind pads vs. tips has to do with keeping your fingers evenly curved across the knuckles, maintaining a curved "C" shape with your thumb and fingers (the Lego grip) If your fingers straighten out across the 2nd and 3rd knuckle, you are adding stress at the 1st knuckle and it will probably take slightly more effort to fret the note.

also, you could gain a bit of speed by using tips over pads. definitely for guitar, you'd use tips for single note runs cuz those lil strings are sooo close together.

That said, I switch between pads and tips. depending. usually on a slower part that requires some string damping, i'll soften the "C" shape of my hands to let my fingers rest against strings and prevent unwanted vibes.

Just my thoughts, not a doctor, IMHO YMMV etc...