Nashville Bass

[bilco]

I played in bands with several surly old school steel players who would snarl at me if I played the 5th of the chord as the last bass note before going from whatever chord we were on up a 4th to the next chord.

If I am playing in G and the bass is playing on the 1st and 3rd quarter notes of the measure, if I am going up to the IV chord C, instead of playing the notes GDGD, the steel players would want me to play GDGG. Same thing going from the V chord back to the I chord, play DADD instead of DADA.

Theory wise, I don't see what the big deal is if the bass player hits a D as the last note before going to the C because the D is in the scale of the G chord. Plus, these bass lines start sounding even more monotonous than a 2/4 country music bass line already is anyway.

I learned to do it and sometimes I do it and sometimes I don't. When I listen to country, sometimes I hear the Nashville session players doing this and sometimes I don't. I don't think anyone in Austin cares about following this rule, at least that I know of.

There has to be a reason the bass players did this on the old school country music of the 60s and 70s. Does anyone out there know what the purpose was and if it is still relevant today?

Are there any other unwritten rules for country bass lines when playing on sessions?

Thanks,
bilco

[Johnny StingRay]

Old school players, (like me), want you to play the G going into the C chord because the G is the fifth of the C chord, (major or minor), and is the most solid and natural sounding cadence to the C. When you go back to the I chord, G, one plays the D on the last beat because it is the fifth of the G chord, (major or minor), and again the fifth is the strongest cadence back to the root. For country, especially old school, you want that bass and the cadences as solid as possible, and the fifth to root cadence is as solid as it gets. When the bass is solid that gives the steel players room to play around with the melody. Which is cool because that's their job. The job of the country bass is to be solid and straight forward rhythmically and harmonically. Now if you were talking about jazz...............that's a whole 'nuther puppy!
I hope that answers your question.
Johnny

[bilco]

Originally Posted by Johnny StingRay

Old school players, (like me), want you to play the G going into the C chord because the G is the fifth of the C chord, (major or minor), and is the most solid and natural sounding cadence to the C. When you go back to the I chord, G, one plays the D on the last beat because it is the fifth of the G chord, (major or minor), and again the fifth is the strongest cadence back to the root. For country, especially old school, you want that bass and the cadences as solid as possible, and the fifth to root cadence is as solid as it gets. When the bass is solid that gives the steel players room to play around with the melody. Which is cool because that's their job. The job of the country bass is to be solid and straight forward rhythmically and harmonically. Now if you were talking about jazz...............that's a whole 'nuther puppy!
I hope that answers your question.
Johnny

Thanks Johnny, that does help.

So, was it to keep the bass player out of the way and provide the most solid cadence for steel guitar and string arrangements? Do you know when this started, like early 60s, because I don't think they were doing this on Hank Williams or other 50s country sessions. Then again, I got into country late, so I am not really all that well schooled on it.......

Any other "Do & Don't" kind of tips for playing on country sessions?

If you were playing on singer/songwriter sessions without steel or string arrangements, would you still use this technique?

Thanks,
Bill

[Johnny StingRay]

Use of cadence has been going on since way back in the day. I mean waaayyyyyy back in the day, since it is of major importance in classical music. When I first started playing bass back in 1975, I was attending Michigan State University for a fisheries biology degree. I used to go to the bookstore and buy the music theory texts for the music classes just so I could learn about harmony, orchestration and counterpoint. Learning about the various types of cadence was a big deal for those classical writers. (I never figured out why I just didn't change my major to music!!! Oh, well. Long, boring story. I'm a special ed. teacher now.) You could probably Google stuff like that on the internet and learn a ton about it.
For all the country I've played, it seems that most of the old school, "real country", sticks to the key and a lot of movement between chordal arpeggios is through the scale or sometimes chromatic.....climbs up or down note to note. For example, changing from C major to F major just climb up C C D E to F, or C D Eb E to F. Or from C major to G7 go C D E F to G. Most people call those "walk-ups" and you can go down, too, "walk-downs". But, remember what you first asked about, playing the fifth of the next chord on the fourth beat to lead into that next chord.
You know what is a good example of playing bass like that? Get Otis Redding's Greatest Hits, or buy any CD from Dwight Yokum.......great example of tight solid bass playing in the country style.
Johnny

[bilco]

Thanks!

[JimmyM]

I haven't heard of anyone getting mad when the bass hits (using your example) the D going from the G to the C, but they will darn sure get mad if you play a G over a C chord before going back to the G. My general rule of thumb is that if the next chord is the 5th of the chord you're on, always play the root before you switch chords, otherwise it sounds a little odd. I guess some older school guys enforce that rule for every chord. Oh well...

[four2oh]

good tips, thanks!

[bilco]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I haven't heard of anyone getting mad when the bass hits (using your example) the D going from the G to the C, but they will darn sure get mad if you play a G over a C chord before going back to the G. My general rule of thumb is that if the next chord is the 5th of the chord you're on, always play the root before you switch chords, otherwise it sounds a little odd. I guess some older school guys enforce that rule for every chord. Oh well...

The way it was explained by the surly steel player was that it only applied when you were moving up a 4th, I to IV chord, V to 1 chord, etc., so in your example of going from the IV chord back down to, it would not apply.

bilco

[cybersnyder]

I'm just getting a kick mentally picturing this surly steel player.

[bilco]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

I'm just getting a kick mentally picturing this surly steel player.

Now that I think of it, they are ALL surly! Well, most of 'em anyway, but maybe I would be too if I had to tune that thing, much less play it......

This one was in everybody's business, growling at the drummer, snarling at me....

The one I play with now never says a word, but if I hit a clam, burn a fret or just play something he doesn't approve of, he just gives me "the look".

[Johnny StingRay]

Originally Posted by bilco

Now that I think of it, they are ALL surly! Well, most of 'em anyway, but maybe I would be too if I had to tune that thing, much less play it......

This one was in everybody's business, growling at the drummer, snarling at me....

The one I play with now never says a word, but if I hit a clam, burn a fret or just play something he doesn't approve of, he just gives me "the look".

Get some old Buck Owens and learn the licks, then lay them on those old steel players...........they'll be buying YOU shots of Jack after the show!!!!
Johnny

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bilco

The way it was explained by the surly steel player was that it only applied when you were moving up a 4th, I to IV chord, V to 1 chord, etc., so in your example of going from the IV chord back down to, it would not apply.

bilco

So he's saying that it's OK to play CGCG/GDGD? That seems odd. Most bassists don't want to play the note that's the root of the chord they're about to switch to. Maybe that's an Austin thing