Necessity of speed for a bassist?

champbassist · #1 07-10-2010, 02:02 AM

Let me mention the context for my question.

I read an interview wherein a fairly accomplished bassist praised Hadrien Feraud as the fastest bassist ever,"as fast as John McLaughlin on guitar!".

Got me thinking...

For my first couple years playing bass, I put in quite a bit of my time to developing my speed, a consequence of my love for the shred genre (as with most teenage boys).

Of late though, I'm beginning to ask myself: is hyper-speed even required to be a great bassist? I've begun putting in my time to understanding lyrical and groove based music, as opposed to virtuostic (sometimes mindless) shredding.

For example, even if the guitarists are playing a 16ths based riff @ 180, wouldn't I do fine playing just 8ths?

I ask you guys: how much importance do you attach to speed? And where (if ever) do you find it absolutely necessary to pluck 16ths @ 180 as opposed to just 8ths (except covers

).

Thanks

Edit: I know that everyone wants to do "what's good for the song". I'm asking, here, for opinions, in case you are given the choice between rapid barrage of notes or spacier (perhaps groovier) option of slower played passages.

crack-boom · #2 07-10-2010, 02:06 AM

Doing whats required for the song... If it's 16ths then I'll play 16ths, if its 8ths then 8ths... If its 32nds then 32nds... My playing isn't ever going to be better than the song that I am currently playing.

MiGGY · #3 07-10-2010, 02:18 AM

I don't think it's necessary... BUT it is a great tool to possess. It could be what separates you from the guy sitting next to you auditioning for the same gig... IMO groove is 100% more important.

champbassist · #4 07-10-2010, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crack-boom

Doing whats required for the song... If it's 16ths then I'll play 16ths, if its 8ths then 8ths... If its 32nds then 32nds... My playing isn't ever going to be better than the song that I am currently playing.

But what if 16ths and 8ths both sound nice?

Do you opt for the speedier option?

**colcifer** · #5 07-10-2010, 02:21 AM

No one cares how fast you can play if you can't pick the right notes.

champbassist · #6 07-10-2010, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colcifer

No one cares how fast you can play if you can't pick the right notes.

What if I can?

Beginner Bass · #7 07-10-2010, 06:51 AM

Technical ability should never be used to show off. Technical ability simply increases your options when crafting parts. Sometimes less is more. But sometimes more is more. And if you can't play more, you have to settle for less. Speed is not required, but can't hurt. Likewise, some songs may benefit from a 32nd note slap solo. Maybe not often, but who knows? Perhaps a tap solo helps the song? However, just because you can does not always mean you should. Play for the song, not your ego.

bassbrad · #8 07-10-2010, 11:55 AM

I like to use a racing analogy for a bassists speed skills.
>If absolute speed is what you want then you have to keep things simple: drag race or oval track drivers.
>If instead speed and agility is wanted then think: F1 or Rally Car drivers.
*The funniest thing to me is to see the Nascar or Indy on a road track, those drivers are completely lost on a road track, "sh!t I got to turn both ways" those speed demons suck on road tracks because they lack the skills to adapt. My wife and I drive our stock SVT Focus faster on a road track than those guys and we are not pros just skilled amateurs.
***F1 on the other hand those guys are scarry monsters able to drive impossible cars over challenging tracks in changing conditions as fast as humanly possible, man those guys even race in the rain.
Sorry for the rant my point is develop all your skills not just speed.

Beginner Bass · #9 07-10-2010, 01:31 PM

+1. Develop all areas of playing.

Gawd · #10 07-10-2010, 01:32 PM

Speed comes ultimately with practicing all other aspects of your playing, at least clean speed does. For instance, if you can play very fast, but you don't know your way aren't the fretboard completely (keeping in a key, outlining chords) than you will tripping all over the place, your speed won't matter if you don't have confidence in the notes that you are playing.

Before speed you should be honing you knowledge of harmony, your sense of tone, technique and relaxation, etc.

When I think of playing fast cleanly, this video always comes to mind. Since this is the result of honing all skills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHvk7J7V2i8

bass_snake · #11 07-10-2010, 01:45 PM

You don't need speed all the time. But it's a great technique to have when certain songs comes up.

Fred

**lowendfriend** · #12 07-10-2010, 02:53 PM

Support the song. Play fewer notes. Think Duck Dunn.

It is great to have when u need it, but less is more in the bass trade IMHO.

mulchor · #13 07-10-2010, 04:17 PM

Not gonna name names, but some fast players bore me to the point I don't listen. Even if they do play with Steve Vai.

The analogy I'll draw on is the difference between a stenographer and an author. To do court reporting, you gotta be over 200 wpm. But a deposition is damnably boring stuff.

GianGian · #14 07-10-2010, 04:23 PM

In some styles it is handy and does make a difference, think Iron Maiden. But in most music styles I don't find it to be really necessary. Plus, I have noticed long ago that I am not a fast player. Not on drums, not on guitar and most important, not on the bass.
I can play fast for while and I will get very tired. Practise you could say, but I am not going to spend 2 hours with a metronome everyday. I believe that even then I wouldn't be fast enough. Some people just don't have it.
Short answer: I don't think that it is essential for a bass player to be able to play fast.

**colcifer** · #15 07-10-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by champbassist

What if I can?

Just wanted to make sure it was said for the sake of young, impressionable readers.

somegeezer · #16 07-10-2010, 04:37 PM

I think learning to play fast certainly helps when playing slow, but complicated things. I do sometimes likespeed, but I really love my complex rhythms more. It's what you like and what suits the music.

JimmyM · #17 07-10-2010, 10:12 PM

most good pocket players (not all but most) can get pretty speedy when needed. everybody extolls the virtues of guys like jamerson and prestia and dunn for their tastefulness, but the truth is when those guys needed to rip, they could rip. speed isn't the be all end all, but it's better to have it than not. you can always simplify if you can play fast...but you can't rip if you're simple.

champbassist · #18 07-10-2010, 10:19 PM

Just a polite question, not making a point against anything, but could you guys give an example of a song wherein the bass would not work if it wasn't played scary fast?

All songs with really fast bass lines I can think of (e.g. Scarified by Racer X and The Glass Prison by Dream Theater) could, IMHO, work just as well with slower bass lines.

billoetjen · #19 07-10-2010, 10:26 PM

Speed is very bad for you in the long-run.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/812518-overview

JimmyM · #20 07-10-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by champbassist

Just a polite question, not making a point against anything, but could you guys give an example of a song wherein the bass would not work if it wasn't played scary fast?

nope, because you could say that about any song ever written. likewise, you could say the opposite. plus you're making it sound like you're using that as a reason to not improve past a certain point, which is something i don't believe in. i hear a lot of bassists who have the philosophy they don't need to have any speed because they only like simple parts. a majority of them suck on those simple parts, though. whereas, again, most bassists who have some speed skills sound a lot more skillful when they play simple parts.