Neck Shape = Tendonitis? HELP!

[jkkkjkhk]

I have an 02 Spector Euro4 which I think is causing my tendonitis. I've had tendonitis many times before but every time was from something new. When I started guitar 10 years ago I got it, when I started bass 6 years ago I got it, drums 4 years ago I got it... I've been playing bass regularly and on my last bass (Aria Pro II Elite) I could play for hours and have no problems (or so I remember). I did use very light strings (35-90, rumored that Cliff used that size) so it could partially be why. I use rotosound SS's and I love them. Well I sold it and got a Spector. I've noticed how fat this neck is and my playing has drastically gone down. I can't play as fast, accurate, bend strings as far, and overall just can't play as good. The Spectors might have smaller frets which can contribute a little. I first got DR lo riders SS 45-105 and hated them. Played them for a month or so and eventually got rotos SS 40-95 and am happier. I still can't bend the strings much at all or play as well as I could but I think my hands can handle this gauge by now.

Ever since I got this bass I've noticed how uncomfortable it is for me to play. It takes a lot of fun out of it and makes me not even want to play. From reading around on here I've heard people say the Spector Euro's (pre LX) had really fat necks and were uncomfortable. I've started to get pain a few weeks ago which I knew very well what it was from my many past experiences. Normally I take it easy and it goes away and I never have a problem again (until I start something new). This has not gone away and has actually gotten much worse. Now I have pain at times just from my wrist sitting there. I can barely put any pressure on it and bass is almost completely unplayable. The strings aren't much bigger than before, scale is same, style is same, technique is same, so my only guess is it's the bass. I've gone to GC to try out some other necks to get a feel and the P bass neck feels fine and I've always heard those were fat.

So I'm not sure if the neck shape has caused my technique to change dramatically or if the neck shape itself is too big for my hands. I'm 5'6" 120lbs so I'm a pretty small guy. I don't in anyway have big hands. I'll be seeing a physical therapist soon to get rid of the problem but I'd like to find out if the bass was the problem, if so I'll be getting something different.

Anyone here have a Spector Euro and have problems with the neck? Anyone else have problems with neck shapes?

I took a few pic of my technique as well as my wrist. Over the last week the pain has gotten pretty bad and I've actually noticed a good sized bump on top of my wrist and it's right where the pain is (coincidence?). I play guitar as well and have no problems even right now. Even with the pain I can still play fine just not on the bass.
I feel the pain most when I'm playing stretches or string skipping octaves. It's a strain on my hand (not even meaning the pain) and I've never noticed it on other basses.

Here's my normal position.

Here's when I'm playing stretches and string skipping octaves.

Here's my fretting hand, with the bump.

right hand without.

same bump, hard to see in pic but it's very noticeable for me.

right hand without.

My right hand is fine and I play pretty aggressive fingerstyle.
So my only guess is this neck shape is too fat for me and my hands just really hate it.
Is a different bass in my near future?
Thanks for any help

[JimmyM]

In the first pic you have some sort of angle going on that you shouldn't, and you shouldn't be cradling the neck in your hand like that either. Your technique isn't bad but it could use a little tweaking. The neck itself shouldn't matter...but don't let it rest in your hand, and do your best to keep your fingers parallel with the frets. Won't always be identically parallel but that's the idea.

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

In the first pic you have some sort of angle going on that you shouldn't, and you shouldn't be cradling the neck in your hand like that either. Your technique isn't bad but it could use a little tweaking. The neck itself shouldn't matter...but don't let it rest in your hand, and do your best to keep your fingers parallel with the frets. Won't always be identically parallel but that's the idea.

Not sure which angle you're talking about but my wrist is straight, just not 90 degrees to the neck. I try to keep my fingers parallel (I took a few semesters of classical and that was a big thing) but I feel I have to fight the neck to be able to and it cause a lot of discomfort if I am parallel. And by cradle do you mean having my whole palm touching? Should I keep my fingers back so only my thumb tip and finger tips touch the neck? I try to do that too but I don't get enough strength that way.

I don't know any ways to strengthen my wrist more than just playing does.

[JimmyM]

Re: cradling, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Pushing the strings down isn't about strength...it's about leverage. You lose all your leverage by cradling the neck, and you cut down the effectiveness of your fingers, and that definitely can cause strains that cause tendonitis. Assuming everything else about your fingers being parallel is accurate (hard to tell from pics, admittedly), I'd say the cradling is half of your problem, and the other half is death gripping the neck in an effort to get more strength.

[jkkkjkhk]

Well then I'm stumped. I play guitar classical style and I've never had a problem. On any other bass I can play correct with 105's, maybe not as fast but I don't have problems. What's so significant about this that it's messing me up? If I play classical style on this bass I get more pain. You said it's leverage, not strength which makes perfect sense but for some reason I'm not getting any leverage (or something else is up) to where I can't play it correctly. Maybe I need to have a bass lesson or two.

[jkkkjkhk]

ok watching my hand as I'm playing now. If I pull my palm back and play classical I notice my thump has to come back really far as well so it's directly under the D string instead of in the middle or under the A string. After about a minute of playing I noticed I'm having to press much harder than before and my wrist started throbbing which normally takes quite a while. I don't feel like I'm getting any leverage so I'm having to press much harder for the same amount of pressure on the strings. I'm not grinding the strings into the board or flexing my arm the whole time either, just a little more pressure than what's needed. If I go too light the string likes to slide out of fast parts or during bends. I feel like I'm playing on a baseball bat where I'm stretching beyond my limits for simple stuff let alone the more difficult stuff I like to play.

Thanks a ton for all your help dude.

[JimmyM]

Absolutely you need bass lessons from someone who's good with the ergonomics, preferably a good jazz teacher. You're not playing classical guitar now, and while some things translate, some don't. The strings are thicker and you're doing a lot less chordal stuff. But absolutely take lessons and get it straightened out...if you have tendonitis today, it'll be CTS tomorrow.

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Absolutely you need bass lessons from someone who's good with the ergonomics, preferably a good jazz teacher. You're not playing classical guitar now, and while some things translate, some don't. The strings are thicker and you're doing a lot less chordal stuff. But absolutely take lessons and get it straightened out...if you have tendonitis today, it'll be CTS tomorrow.

Exactly, that's what I'm worried about. If this was just the normal come and go tendonitis I'd just live with it but I know this time it's different. What's special about a Jazz bassist? I know next to nothing about Jazz to know any type of technique or anything they do.

Would radius or anything affect me or is it all just a preference thing? I know on guitar I can definitely feel it but on bass I never paid attention. Do you think the shape isn't the problem, just me? Just trying to find all the things that should make me look closer at individual basses.

[JimmyM]

Jazz bassists almost always have a superior knowledge base, and many of them have been to school for it. I wouldn't even think of taking lessons unless they were based around jazz.

As for the bass, sure, we all have preferences for shapes and sizes. But you should be able to play safely on any bass you pick up, regardless if it's made with your preferences or not.

[jkkkjkhk]

Ok thanks, I'll start looking.

[fearceol]

I agree with all JimmyM's points. While you are on the look out for a teacher, you could check out this site from fellow TB'r Chris K. It deals with all physical problems encountered with bass playing. This link deals with the left hand.

Chris K | Shakin' the grounds

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by fearceol

I agree with all JimmyM's points. While you are on the look out for a teacher, you could check out this site from fellow TB'r Chris K. It deals with all physical problems encountered with bass playing. This link deals with the left hand.

Chris K | Shakin' the grounds

Thanks, I'll check that out too.

[Schlyder]

I would say it is your hand position causing your problem.

You want to have your thumb in the back of the neck, opposite the 2nd finger. Like a pinching position.

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by Schlyder

I would say it is your hand position causing your problem.

You want to have your thumb in the back of the neck, opposite the 2nd finger. Like a pinching position.

Thanks

[fearceol]

Some more links that you may find useful :

YouTube - ‪Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar‬‏


YouTube - ‪Beginner Bass Guitar Lesson: Left Hand Technique‬‏


The second one is for noobs, but still worth checking out IMO.

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Some more links that you may find useful :

YouTube - ‪Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar‬‏


YouTube - ‪Beginner Bass Guitar Lesson: Left Hand Technique‬‏


The second one is for noobs, but still worth checking out IMO.

Already watched those, funny thing is I didn't have the problem before. Probably just not yet.

[WPW]

HI, I am new here. With regards to the "bump" on your wrist.... It looks like a ganglion? Because you have, or might have had the wrong wrist/hand position, you put to much stress on the wrist and joint. The joint then responds to it by shedding water (almost the same as a blister) internally to protect the wrist. A membrande forms around the water and hardens. When you then need to use and stretch while playing the bass, this hardened membrane touches the tendons and sensitive wrist parts, with immense pain. You can use cortisone for this. (usually a 3 day treatment) and it will go away. If it doesnt go away, or comes back within 2-3months, another cortisone treatment, and draining the fluid with a saringe (painfull) the last option is to have the Ganglion removed by a surgeon. Allow a 8 week recovery process.

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by WPW

HI, I am new here. With regards to the "bump" on your wrist.... It looks like a ganglion? Because you have, or might have had the wrong wrist/hand position, you put to much stress on the wrist and joint. The joint then responds to it by shedding water (almost the same as a blister) internally to protect the wrist. A membrande forms around the water and hardens. When you then need to use and stretch while playing the bass, this hardened membrane touches the tendons and sensitive wrist parts, with immense pain. You can use cortisone for this. (usually a 3 day treatment) and it will go away. If it doesnt go away, or comes back within 2-3months, another cortisone treatment, and draining the fluid with a saringe (painfull) the last option is to have the Ganglion removed by a surgeon. Allow a 8 week recovery process.

Thanks, I've always read about pressure treatment where a physical therapist will find the spot and dig in and rub it to break up scar tissue. I'm not PT but I tried it lightly, it hurt a bit but instantly felt a little better afterwards. It got a little smaller too. I don't want to keep trying it just because I'm not sure if I'm screwing myself over or not. When I go see a PT I'll be sure to bring it up and see if they can show me how to do it myself.

[baileyboy]

Tendon injuries are very serious because they get so little blood flow and therefore take much longer to heal than muscle injuries. Having had "tennis elbow" before I can tell you what helped me...

1) Until completely healed, avoid the activity that caused the injury or anything that may aggravate it. In this case, playing bass. Easier said than done if you play for a living. If this be the case, wear a brace, strap, etc. that may help avoid further injury.

2) Barring aggravating the injury further, do tendon exercises religiously every day. There are tons on the Internet- choose a handful and spend 10 minutes a day doing them.

3) Take a gelatin supplement. This supplement contains a high level of two amino acids that help to heal tendons/ligaments, namely proline and glycine.

4) Use trigger point therapy and/or deep tissue massage on the tendon. This will increase blood flow to the tendon injury and help it to heal faster.

5) Ice this injury every chance you get. This will reduce inflammation and pain. I've tried heat to increase blood flow, but for me, heat only seems to aggravate tendon injuries. Try both and judge for yourself.

I hope this is of some help.

[jkkkjkhk]

Originally Posted by baileyboy

Tendon injuries are very serious because they get so little blood flow and therefore take much longer to heal than muscle injuries. Having had "tennis elbow" before I can tell you what helped me...

1) Until completely healed, avoid the activity that caused the injury or anything that may aggravate it. In this case, playing bass. Easier said than done if you play for a living. If this be the case, wear a brace, strap, etc. that may help avoid further injury

2) Barring aggravating the injury, do tendon exercises religiously every day. There are tons on the Internet- choose a handful and spend 10 minutes a day doing them.

3) Take a gelatin supplement. This supplement contains a high level of two amino acids that help to heal tendons/ligaments, namely proline and glycine.

4) Use trigger point therapy and/or deep tissue massage on the tendon. This will increase blood flow to the tendon injury and help it to heal faster.

5) Ice this injury every chance you get. This will reduce inflammation and pain. I've tried heat to increase blood flow, but for me, heat only seems to aggravate tendon injuries. Try both and judge for yourself.

I hope this is of some help.

Thanks, I've read tons of threads like this but I was just never sure what to do and what not to do. I mean one guy says do this, another says don't do that it'll mess you up. So I've always been a little hesitant to do self treatments.