Need some groove and feel help.

[Dennis Kong]

Suggest getting a teacher who specializes in the music you want to work on. - jazz or motown or Jaco's material, etc.

For me: I studied with Kai Eckhardht( John McLaughlin, Ralph
Towner, Billy Cobham). And I had relearn a lot basics again.
Bad Habits with hand technique, inaccurate 16note placement, etc, etc. Humbling but I learned.
When I had a better control with that, we started to work with a drum machine. I had relearn placement of time again:
behind the beat vs on the beat vs on top of the beat.
Humbling again. but it made me very aware of those factors.

Getting back to the basics- at first, then branching out into
one field at a time. Once you "relearn the basics" again, then
you can learn other genres faster.
And it will get somewhat easier: Once you get to a certain level of proficiency. (growth). You" ll discover you have to work on other weaknesses.

I play & sub in different cover bands -motown, funk, jazz, off & on. Without basics covered in theory, grooves, solos, etc,
I could not do a good job, or communicate musically with better players than myself.
IE:Or if they want you play a certain chord with voicing.
Ab#9#5/ Gb for example. You'll know what notes
to play.

For grooves: suggest either a drum machine or software program such as Band In The Box. Granted: they 're rigid &
stiff. But they' ll give you a feel/taste for the music.
And tedious too.
With a drum machine; if you learn to program the basics with
"Funky Primer" (drummer book) or have some knowledge about
drummer language- it give you an understanding about how
a drummer "thinks". It helps a whole lot. You' ll be able to
communicate with the drummer better and think as one unit.

I had to sub for a friend at the last minute last year.
With no rehearsal either.
Guess who the drummer was?? Donny Baldwin (Jefferson Starship,Cold Blood, Elvin Bishop, Jerry Garcia,Grateful Dead).
We were just playing cover tunes, motown, funk, & rock stuff. But without the basics down, I could not keep up with him on different styles, or different placement of time for
the different styles. I sweated that one out too. And
he was very happy with my playing,
I was surprised & flattered too.
It all helps.

[RicPlaya]

[quote=Dennis Kong]Suggest getting a teacher who specializes in the music you want to work on. - jazz or motown or Jaco's material, etc.



A lot of groove going on there!




, we started to work with a drum machine. I had relearn placement of time again:
behind the beat vs on the beat vs on top of the beat.
Humbling again. but it made me very aware of those factors.
For grooves: suggest either a drum machine or software program such as Band In The Box. Granted: they 're rigid &
stiff. But they' ll give you a feel/taste for the music.
And tedious too.




I would be very careful with the drum machine. A drum machine or program is the problem, it never has groove! You have to manipulate your timing in order to play with a program or machine which if you were doing your job and locking in you would have no groove. In order to groove to a machine you will have to play out of time with it a little bit in certain parts of the measure. Be very careful, I suggest playing with as many real drummers as possible.

[Joe P]

"Placement of time"; "behind the beat vs on the beat vs on top of the beat"; "different placement of time for the different styles"...

Very interesting. I'd better quit delaying, and get me a teacher.

Thanks All - this community has been much more valuable to me than I would have thought.

Joe

[Lewis7789]

When I think of a "groove", it's very much "less is more".

For example, the grooves I like the most are funk/jazz grooves. Like MMW, Galactic, Karl Denson, John Scofield etc. The basslines are usually pretty simple and not many notes played. I have found the trick is NOT to play.

I play in a "jam-band" with TWO drummers, keys, and two guitarists, so I don't play a lot for this simple reason, it would be too thick and no groove. So when we start to really open up and jam, I won't play anything. It's almost funny because the guys in the band know I'm going to bust out some funky stuff. But I won't play a single note for 4 bars, or more. Just let it riiiiiide out, then Bam! I'll hit the root note on the 1. And it'll just take care of itself.

When you play just a few simple notes and space them out very far apart, I think it grooves more because the listener is waiting and anticipating the next note. Let them linger for a while, hoping to hear the big bottom of a bass. Then tease them with a few notes and wait again. A lot like sex!!! The bassist giveth and taketh away.

Just my two cents. But a lot of it is in the feel and a great drummer. Some drummers groove much better than others.

[Dennis Kong]

[quote=RicPlaya]

Originally Posted by Dennis Kong

Suggest getting a teacher who specializes in the music you want to work on. - jazz or motown or Jaco's material, etc.



A lot of groove going on there!

I would be very careful with the drum machine. A drum machine or program is the problem, it never has groove! You have to manipulate your timing in order to play with a program or machine which if you were doing your job and locking in you would have no groove. In order to groove to a machine you will have to play out of time with it a little bit in certain parts of the measure. Be very careful, I suggest playing with as many real drummers as possible.

Actually it's more of guide. Drum machines & software programs are quite stiff-
Agreed with your point.

But it does give you "reference" to work with.
Since we are human and do not have " mathically perfect
time" or computer like - one's time will be "slightly off" anyways
as no one is perfect. (yet).

You' ll find after working with a machine, at least for me, I can
"sense & adjust" to the drummer faster & better.
Or: you want to play ahead of the beat, or behind, or
whatever with a drummer; you can adjust accordingly.
It' just a "tool" like a flight simulator.