Noob 'finger roll' question

[terribilino]

So after a year of noodling around, I decided to pick up Hal Leonard's Bass Method (go Ed!), thinking that I'd able to sail right through the basics. I'm stuck on page 21, and it's pretty humiliating.

There are pictures in the book, but without video it's sometimes not easy to figure out what proper technique should be based on the text description. The finger roll seems to let you do a fourth going from the bottom string to the next one up. The book says to use the tip of your finger on the bottom string (let's say the F on the E-string) and then to flatten out your finger, covering the adjacent fret of the next string up with the pad of the finger (the B flat on the A-string). So far so good. But then the rinky dink exercise which comes right after this description doesn't start with the lower note, but the higher (it starts with the C, goes down to the G, and then back up to the C).

2 questions:

How can this be done smoothly (legato), without sounding like you're jumping (which is what I seem to be doing - I can't seem to play a C on the A-string and then roll down to the G... or should I be able to do this by practising?).

And is the finger roll generally restricted to the index finger? I can see that it would be a very useful technique with all the fingers, but I can't manage it on the pinky. Again, is this just a question of practice?

Thanks!

[basmartin]

My pinky is not able to do that finger roll the other fingers can. It´s to short and I can bend that last joint... So I usually just jump from C to G with the 4th finger, or play the C with the 4th and the G with the third finger.

[sleepytime]

The placement of the finger is important. Play a note on the E string, then roll your finger to fret a note on the A string, but your fingertip should still be contacting the E string, muting it. I wind up with my fingertip touching the E string from underneath as I look at it while playing, that is, my fingertip would push the E string away from the A and towards the ceiling if I were to apply pressure. It really doesn't have to be perfect, but what I aim to achieve for clean technique.

Anyway, that is the fingering you are aiming for when you play the A string first. The trick is to be in position like you just rolled off the E.

Practice contacting the higher pitched string at the proper spot on the pad of your finger to set up a roll to the lower pitched string, practice starting with the lower pitched string first (easier), and practice going back and forth. As you roll from string to string, your fingertip is alternating between pressing the E to the fretboard and contacting the side of it. Further down, the pad of your finger is alternating between pressing and muting the A.

Alternate back and forth:
-playing the E and muting the A
-playing the A and muting the E

And wow is that hard to explain without showing it. Try playing Money by Pink Floyd a hundred times. It's an easy simple song to play, and you'll get plenty of practice at the finger roll.

[johhn smith]

i presume you mean using a digit to make a mini barre across two strings. i use this technique both up and down. i mute with my right fingers. i will do a walk up and down fret by fret pushing down 2 notes with each of the 4 digits on my left hand simultaneously while fingering each note separately or as a double stop.

fwiw i try to finger each note individually if i can. i play a lot of chords and it is awkward making the transition from a baby finger barre to another shape. the barre kinda locks your finger to the fretboard whereas if i have fingered the 2 notes individually i simply lift and move one finger or the other. it is one of the instances where i will break with the one finger per fret rule.

with regards to playing smoothly it will take time and practice, don't be discouraged or give up.

[FromBeyond]

I've wrestled with this stuff as well for a solid two weeks *and i still don't have it quite right, really* but it seems like i am on the right trail!

[kr0n]

Hopefully your bass is setup right (the strings have a curve along the fretboard radius, it makes it a bit easier.

I don't have that book here with me currently but I think it also said that when going to lower strings, you change your finger position. As in, going from D to A from A string to E string, you'd just move it really really fast But since you have the sheet in front of you and you KNOW what's gonna happen, I'd suggest keeping it ready for the roll.

I wouldn't "lock" the finger straight, I'd keep it straight without overextending or locking of any sort, use the muscles to keep it in place, maybe a slight curve along the strings.

Normally when you fret something on the E string you have a curve in your fingers, right? Now when you need to go up a 4th to the A string and back again, you bend the the last joint (the one closest to the tip of the finger) to hit the A string. Now when you pluck normally with your right hand (fingerstyle) you end up resting on the E string, effectively muting it. But do practice lifting the finger a bit to raise it from the fret to mute (but if you're doing it near the harmonics spots, it might be a problem if you don't do a rest stroke).

If you're playing humppa and doing a lot of Root - lower 5th jumps then utilizing 2 fingers could be the right way for true legato but for my ears moving fast down the strings is enough.

For fast movement anticipating the next note comes into play. You start by bending the finger a tiny bit and when the time comes, you straighten it and it should land on the right spot very fast, without clanking the string to the frets of course.

I would either use the "pressure roll ready" method or jumping down the string fast and then the next one with the pressure roll, depending where I'm heading next.

[terribilino]

Good advice. I'll keep practising and hope for the best. Setup might well be an issue - I'm quite sure the action's too high on my bass, but the guitar techs in the town where I live don't seem to be able to deal with it. Or maybe the bass won't let them. Who knows.

Ed Friedland did indeed mention the change in the way you position your finger when doing the finger roll. What wasn't completely clear was whether or not you roll down as well as up. I only seem to be able to do the roll down if I fret the adjacent frets simultaneously. If I just hold down the upper fret with the pad of the finger and then try to roll down to the next one, rolling from the pad to the tip of my finger, I end up bending the lower string. Sounds pretty horrible.

Well: practice, practice, practice.

[kr0n]

In addition to straightening your finger, you need to move your hand as well, or elbow to be exact. So you push your elbow out from your chest. Imagine holding a basketball against your bicep with the palm of your hand. Now try to move the basketball from your bicep onto your palm. Less than half of that is the required movement needed for a pressure roll on all four strings. With just two strings, bending from the joint should be enough.

I think it said that when you move down (to thicker strings) you move your fingers pad to the correct fret and when going up in strings, you use roll. If you're coming right back, should be quite clear what to use.

Oh, you very very rarely need to use the TIP of your finger. With bass, you mostly fret with the pad. So when going to a thinner string, you use the first joint area to fret.

[sleepytime]

It sounds like your action is indeed too high. If your strings are significantly more than the thickness of an E string from the frets, you should see about a setup, or preferably, have someone teach you to do it.