Notes on Fretless Bass- Need Help

[vcs700s]

I am thinking about buying a fretless bass. I have a fretted bass but sometimes the metal noise of the frets bugs me. I play with flatwound chromes.

I am looking at a vintage Squier. There are lines on the fingerboard. Many have suggested on this board that is the way to go for someone like me.

I was trying one out and was playing at the position marker assuming that the lines were placed where the frets would be on a fretted bass. I thought I read somewhere that the place to play is right between the lines.

Is that correct? If not any help would be appreciated. I have been playing for 3 1/2 months and really love this instrument and especially appreciate this forum.

[MichaelScott]

When you play a fretted bass the strings touch the frets and cuts the length of the string into the exactly the right size for the correct pitch to be generated (if your bass is tuned correctly).

Even if you finger the bass between the frets the frets still do all the work for you and make sure you play in tune.

On a fretless you need to place your fingers exactly where the frets would be to create the proper intonation. Play exactly over the lines.

[FretlessArt]

You will need to train your ear as much as your hand to develop good intonation on a fretless

I might recommend that you try a round wound nickle string as a method of being able to hear the notes clearly as you begin on a fretless. Your finger touch will be more prominant with round wound. I use the D'addarios with the coating on my fretless. they have a warm grrrowl.

[Brass Nut]

I've been thinking of getting a fretless, so I've been scouting around and asking questions.
I've been told twice that if I opt for a 5 string, Tune in the 5th position. Reason stated was you'll get out of the habit of playing open strings, and the tuning will "sound" more accuate.
Not sure for certain that this is a good way to go, but I do know that with my fretted 5 I'll rarely use an open string. And it does seem to make sence when they were telling me. As mentioned though, this is not from experience, just suggested to me by a couple of others. Maybe it'll work for you?
I'd try it and find out.
And if you do, would you let me know what your opinion is of it? I maybe ordering one by the end of the week (if I can figure out what one).

[VTSlim]

The lines on most fretlesses are only an approximate location of the exact note intonations. One my Squire "Jaco" fretless, I ran up and down the fretboard with a tuner when I first got it to get an idea of how the lines were marked. Almost all of them are marked slightly sharp. In other words, I have to slide my fretting fingers slightly to the flat side of the markings to get an accurate tone. The best way to play though is to play with your ear. The great thing about fretlesses is the fact that you can bend notes, slide between notes, and create vibrato without getting fret buzz. The best way to get that to work for you is to just listen with your ear and not pay as much attention to the markings on the fretboard.

By the way, I'd highly recommend the Squire fretless I've got. It was about $280 delivered, and it plays and sounds great for the money. My only complaint so far is that the stock strings scratched up the fretboard almost immediately. I went a few practices in a dark garage with only the stage lights before I realized how much damage had been done once I pulled it out in the light again. I'd recommend keeping an eye on fretboard with the stock strings or swap them out immediately with a coated string or other suitable (softer) string for a fretless.

[Reject]

I started on Fender P Fretless and I'm still playing it today...I really don't see much difference when playing fretted basses but,I guess that it's not the same other way round...However,I like that warmer sound you get on fretless basses and the possibility of bending,sliding and vibratos without fret noises...

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by VTSlim

The lines on most fretlesses are only an approximate location of the exact note intonations. The best way to get that to work for you is to just listen with your ear and not pay as much attention to the markings on the fretboard.

So true. Of course the frets are also an approximate location of the exact note intonation, and with frets you can't do much about it. With fretless, you can make those little adjustments so that more (or hopefully all) of your notes will sound in tune. Lines are nice 'cause they get you very close, but let your ear do its work too.

[vcs700s]

Thank you all for your imput. I just purchased a Fender Standard Jazz Fretless. I will attempt to put into practice what you all have told me.

[tonequixote]

Originally Posted by MichaelScott

On a fretless you need to place your fingers exactly where the frets would be to create the proper intonation. Play exactly over the lines.

If you use this technique your intonation will sound the note sharp, as one of the previous posters noted.

On basses that have lines where the frets used to be, you need to finger the note just behind the line in order to intonate correctly. The contact area of your fingertip needs to be taken into consideration. This assumes that the bass is properly intonated to begin with.

Hope this helps.

[dougjwray]

Above all, use your ears.

[MichaelScott]

Originally Posted by tonequixote

If you use this technique your intonation will sound the note sharp, as one of the previous posters noted.

On basses that have lines where the frets used to be, you need to finger the note just behind the line in order to intonate correctly.

Humm that is weird. When I sit with a chromatic tuner and play with my finger tips on the lines (like a fret would put pressure on the string) I come out in tune. Funny thing... is that it seems to be doing that for the last 3 years I have owned the bass and after every time I take it to get set up. It also seems to hold true with other fretless basses I play. I haven't tried it with a Squire yet.

[Erick Lam]

Depends what you meant by "over the lines". The finger should cut the string like the fret would but putting the finger in the middle of the lines means part of the finger is on the other side of the line/fret, resulting in a sharp note.

[tonequixote]

Originally Posted by Erick Lam

Depends what you meant by "over the lines". The finger should cut the string like the fret would but putting the finger in the middle of the lines means part of the finger is on the other side of the line/fret, resulting in a sharp note.

Exactly. Thanks for helping clarify what I was attempting to communicate.

[vcs700s]

Originally Posted by Erick Lam

Depends what you meant by "over the lines". The finger should cut the string like the fret would but putting the finger in the middle of the lines means part of the finger is on the other side of the line/fret, resulting in a sharp note.

Thank you all for your help. I put new strings on the bass last night and practiced what you said. It works! I have a long way to go but I have to begin somewhere.

[smidgley]

See this

[mstott25]

Originally Posted by smidgley

See this

+1

Gary Willis' setup manual is about the best one floating around.

If you are playing fretless you need to set the intonation on your bass. Different fretlesses will have different setups which is why some of you play right over the line, others right behind the line etc. One thing to always remember is that you must change your finger position depending on where you are at on the neck. If you are playing right over the line in the first position (Frets 1-5) then you will gradually play a little bit below the line the further up the neck you go so that by the time you are at the area around the 21st fret, you are playing in between the lines. Every bass is different, set it up the way you want it and use Willis' manual.

Also, here's another tip for you from Willis, play something in the background while you're practicing and try to practice in that key. Record yourself playing an open G and then practice the G major scale while that's playing in the background. This way you'll be able to hear clearly when you're playing in tune.

Everything I just posted I learned from Gary Willis book "101 Bass Tips" which I've had for a few years now. There's enough advice for playing fretless in that book to make the price worth it, but there's plenty of other advice that will help you out as well. Just thought I'd pass that along.

[MichaelScott]

I'm not claiming to have the experiance that Gary does in playing fretless... but every single fretless I have played is in tune when I play with my fingers over the lines- either on the 1st fret or the 12th fret or the 20th fret. I've done the exercise with a tuner, with a sequencer playing in the back ground, or against another bass player.

I really don't see how an lined fretless bass- that has the same lines as where the frets are- are somehow going to "magicly" require compensation when a fretted bass doesn't.

[mstott25]

Originally Posted by MichaelScott

I'm not claiming to have the experiance that Gary does in playing fretless... but every single fretless I have played is in tune when I play with my fingers over the lines- either on the 1st fret or the 12th fret or the 20th fret. I've done the exercise with a tuner, with a sequencer playing in the back ground, or against another bass player.

I really don't see how an lined fretless bass- that has the same lines as where the frets are- are somehow going to "magicly" require compensation when a fretted bass doesn't.

I don't know what to tell you, but it's true. I've set up every fretless bass I've ever owned so that I play just barely behind the fretline in the lowest registers of the neck. By the time I'm in the 12th fret area I play just a tiny bit further behind the fretline and by the time it's at the 21st fret area my finger is pretty much in the middle of the fretlines.

There's nothing "magical" about it. The pictures on Willis' website are very clear, it's not a huge difference between the fingering in the 12th fret area and the 5th fret area. What would be magical is if you could hit the same note in the same spot on every fretless bass with lines. You must set the intonation on your bass no matter what. The lines have nothing to do with the intonation of the bass, they are visual markers.