Novice player, 3 fingers?

peter6725 · #1 01-21-2008, 11:34 AM

ok, i have been playing the bass for about 5 months now and
i im told im good for the time ive been playing,
I go to gigs often and and make a point of watching the bassist for at leat two songs for each band...
i was at a metal gig recently and noticed the insane speed at which these were played (right hand)..
so i went home after said gig and then tryed to mimic their three finger playing style...epic fail
ive been praticing it for several weeks now and no matter wht i do the my three finger speed wont go any faster or even as fast as my two finger speed
any tips/help please!

meev992 · #2 01-21-2008, 12:01 PM

try google searching talkbass "death metal techniques", or some variation of that phrase...I can recall two threads in recent history that talked about the 3 finger blitz that those crazy metal folks do.

peter6725 · #3 01-21-2008, 12:09 PM

see i was wondering if it was worth perfecting the 3 fingers (spend AGES on it)
or would it be better to do sumtin else instead like improveing my slap or general speed??
i have no idea:P
like the stage im at i could play pretty much most thing givin time although i do get overwhelmed by dead notes LoL
basicly i dont know were to go from here
any suggestio would be greatly appreciated

meev992 · #4 01-21-2008, 12:11 PM

well, it's really up to you. Just don't take on anything that is too difficult or it will frustrate you. I didn't even attempt slapping until at least a year and a half after I started playing. YMMV

meev992 · #5 01-21-2008, 12:13 PM

Demystifying Metal styles, how to make fingerstyle playing heard in Metal

Share your technical death metal techniques!

ysand · #6 01-21-2008, 12:13 PM

Well, u don't need the 3 fingers to play that fast, just a proper 2 finger technique.
To find examples, check the bass lesson threads.

trb6pJM2 · #7 01-21-2008, 12:18 PM

But.

Three finger technique is not just something that can be straight jumped into, it's going to take you AT LEAST 3 months to where your three fingering is up to the speed of your 2. Alot of right hand technique is muscle memory. Your muscles say, oh! I've been playing with these two just fine, whats this third finger doing?! it takes alot of slow practice, alot of ingratiating it into your playing style. And don't think for one second that 3 fingers are in anyway superior to 2, it has limitations and it has benefits. My view is you lose feel to gain speed, but that's just me.

Another thing is, find which three finger technique you're most comfortable with, there's two variations that I call Myung, and Sheehan as they are the two most prominent bassists that use these techniques

Sheehan: ring, middle, index, ring. 321321321321
in my opinion the Sheehan will always give you a triplet feel because of the way the muscles act and the minute amount of seconds in between 3 and 1.

Myung: Ring Middle Index Middle Ring Middle Index Middle. 321232123212. I think that one feels MUCH smoother when you get it down, but, it takes much more time to get it down as your hand naturally doesn't want to double back on the middle.

Next. Don't think that 3 finger technique will completely change your playing and eliminate 2 finger technique and make you a super star player. It won't. 3 finger technique is simply that, a technique. The third finger can be a hinderance at times in fact, and in that case a 2 finger attack can be much better

Lastly, don't use it if it doesn't feel right. if you're thinking, well, maybe I'll throw the ring in the mix while you're doin a little jazz, and say you fall off the beat. The bragging rights of HEY i can use my ring finger and you cant! is not worth that kind of hit to your playing.

If any of this message has sounded pompous, arrogant, or down right mean, it isn't.
I went through most of this stuff trying to learn my three finger and get it to a science.
In a few months your fingers will start acting on their own accord, and you'll feel great!

happy playing!

PS: METRONOME!

peter6725 · #8 01-21-2008, 12:29 PM

Hey, thanks to be honest id say your right when the bassists i saw were useing three fingers it lacked attack and generaly sounded like fuzz
i think ill try Myung: Ring Middle Index Middle Ring Middle Index Middle
id say part of the reason i was failing with three fingers was because i had no real teqnice just the random flailing of fingers and thats never good..

thanks for the help

trb6pJM2 · #9 01-21-2008, 12:35 PM

anytime, it'll take awhile, but it's a nice tool to bring into the woodshed.

Iritan · #10 01-21-2008, 12:57 PM

I myself am a metal bassist and use the three finger technique a lot, the sheehan one previously described most of the time. Honestly though, it only helps sometimes, it takes a lot of practice to make it not triplety and even after doing it for three years I still sometimes slip up.

It is also difficult to integrate it if you are planning on playing multiple strings that takes even more practice.

Probably the biggest problem I personally have with it is speed control. Once you start playing and really get into it, your fingers start dictating speed on their own. So, I can either do it really fast or really slow. It's not something that happens over night that's for sure. I'll probably still be perfecting it when I'm 82.

But I'm not dissing it in anyway, it helps me a lot and it's pretty intrigal to my playing style. But if you ask me, it'd probably better to work on fretting hand speed and dexterity. If my fretting hand was nearly as efficient as my playing hand, I'd be a very happy man.

Either way, playing bass for most of us isn't something that we have a set time to learn things. It's not like you pick up bass say, okay I'm going to get as good as I can in five years, then I'm done. It's a life long thing, the day you're completely satisfied and done learning new skills is the day you've achieved pure bass enlightenment. I don't think anyone has ever reached that. So learn everything and anything you come in contact with, even if you don't think you're going to use it, it will still help you in the long run.

alankroeger · #11 01-21-2008, 01:11 PM

Take up the three finger technique in fact add the thumb too (fingerstyle), you won't regret it. You can continue using two fingers while learning the fingerstyle technique, sometimes two fingers is more efficient. But not so often once you get the third finger going. Nothing happens overnight so if you want faster fingers you need to get those fast twitch muscles going to play faster.

whizack · #12 01-21-2008, 01:18 PM

I think if you really have a need to play that fast you should probably be using a pick.

Just my o.

ballstomper · #13 01-21-2008, 01:29 PM

i have become somewhat proficient with 3 fingers by playing with all three on songs that dont require it at all...alternate 321321 or 32123212 on the regular songs that you would always play...thats how i learned...lots of work to not sound triplettish, though...

my .02

seventhson · #14 01-21-2008, 01:34 PM

I would say that as a new bass player, your #1 priority is to learn how to groove properly and be tight with the drummer. 3 finger technique is something you can add to your bag of tricks later on...i certainly wouldn't make it a priority now. JMO.

nortonrider · #15 01-21-2008, 01:35 PM

Ya know, about 20 years ago I took a triangle pick, punched a hole in it and stuck it on the end of a tape deck motor (kind of like a fan). All I had to do was touch a 9 volt to it and I was playing 256th notes.
I realise that this is a little off topic, but I thought it was cool at the time, and boy was it fast!

peter6725 · #16 01-21-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventhson

I would say that as a new bass player, your #1 priority is to learn how to groove properly

this may sound a bit newbish but could you define groove?

Insanity^2 · #17 01-21-2008, 02:09 PM

I can play 3-2-1-2-3 at the same speed as two fingers... the only thing is, I can't seem to get two fingers to a decent speed... Help?

jschwalls · #18 01-21-2008, 03:00 PM

I was forced to play 3 finger because of hand problems and the fact that i am constantly cutting my fingers..

I started an odd way...I totally had no use of my middle finger so I played everything with my ring and index...

After several months I regained "control" of my middle finger again... then I noticed a HUGE problem.. everything I played was accented as triplets... YUCK.

I had to fix this... so what I did was use the metronome and put a HEAVY accent on 1... then I started slowly playing with my right hand.. as follows;

ring, middle, index, ring
middle, index, ring, middle
index, ring, middle, index

so now i had 3 groups of 4..

i ONLY played the same note for each group of four.. example..

DDDD...D#D#D#D#...EEEE

This way I could concentrate on my accents and not have to worry about what my left was doing as well.. changing notes after each group of 4 worked great for a while..

BUT there are still alot of cool things to be done...like playing ring, index (x4) middle, index (x4).. creating alternating groups of 8, works well for long songs pumping 8th notes all night..
OR something else fun to do..
ring, index, middle, index...
You get the idea... making even number groupings out of odd number fingers. As with most of my practicing, Permutations have gotten the best of me,.

Remember to try to keep the accents from sounding like triplets...

As I had stated in many previous posts, I have learned alot from my doctor who is the reason I am still playing today.
( 36 years old, grrr.)

He showed me that the natural muscle motion of the hand was to go from outside to inside.. or pinky to index... BOTH HANDS.

He demonstrated this by "drumming" his fingers... like when someone is bored or pissed off... tapping the fingernails/fingertips on the table... and naturally it was pinky to index...

I show this to all my students as well to help them understand why playing middle-index is more natural than the other way..

ANYWAY...
this post just got too long.. so it will end..

Any more questions feel free to email me...or ask here.

JSchwalls@comcast.net....

complexprocess · #19 01-21-2008, 08:33 PM

The best tip I ever got for building ring finger dexterity was to work on it when I wasn't playing. People don't tend to use the ring finger very much in day to day life (other than when they're typing) so it's generally pretty weak.

Here are some tips that I've picked for practicing three finger technique:

When you're sitting around in class, at work, or watching TV, lay your hand palm-down on a flat surface. gently lift one finger at a time (without using your other hand.) it will probably be easy for your pinky, middle, and index fingers, but it will be tough for your ring finger. Don't push it, but gently try to lift it. It may only go up a tiny bit, but over time you'll gain flexibility and independence from your middle finger which is crucial no matter which three finger technique you prefer.

When you're anywhere that you can hear music, play along to the beat. You can do this on the edge of a car seat, on a fold in your jeans, or just tapping on something. Start slow, doing straight quarter notes or eighth notes depending on the tempo of the song.

When you're practicing with your bass, start out playing along to something that you can play easily with two fingers. Something with a steady bassline is best for starting out. Maybe a song like "With or Without You" by U2. Once you can play that cleanly move to something a bit faster. Try to avoid triplet feel. If you intentionally emphasize every fourth note a tiny bit (1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4) it will help avoid that feel.

A metronome or drum machine is also a great tool here, because you can adjust your speed very gradually. Each day, dedicate a little time to practicing three finger technique. Even as little as 10 minutes will help immensely. Start with a metronome set to a slow tempo and increase the tempo until you're struggling to play clean notes. Then bring the tempo down a little, play like that for a minute or so, and then bump it up again. If you're now able to play cleanly keep going. If not, write down the tempo that you were playing cleanly at and move on to whatever else you want to practice. The next day do the same thing, and over time you'll see improvement.

Hope any of that is helpful for you. I feel like playing with three fingers is a good skill to have. Even if you never plan to play blisteringly fast, that extra speed might come in handy one day. To paraphrase Adam Nitti, if you remove technical barriers like speed, you'll be able to play anything you can dream up and that opens up your opportunities as a musician. I'm not there myself, but I like to think I'm working in the right direction.

Bakerman · #20 01-21-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trb6pJM2

Sheehan: ring, middle, index, ring. 321321321321
in my opinion the Sheehan will always give you a triplet feel because of the way the muscles act and the minute amount of seconds in between 3 and 1.

Myung: Ring Middle Index Middle Ring Middle Index Middle. 321232123212. I think that one feels MUCH smoother when you get it down, but, it takes much more time to get it down as your hand naturally doesn't want to double back on the middle.

On every video I've taken a close look at, Myung goes 321321... when he's using 3 fingers in a consistent sequence. He'll also use 2 or switch between 2 and 3 within certain lines, though. There may be an isolated 3212 in some places because of that, but not repeating as his main 3-finger approach.