Pick.. rest arm or float???

[cire113]

I'm trying to avoid any injury when playing with a pick does your hand rest on the strings when playing or held up floating?? I'm trying to pick like carol Kaye not sure if she floats or rests hand on strings...

[Rilander]

try anchoring you pinkie on the pickguard (or pickguard area) for stability and a more precise attack.

[Ric5]

Pick.. rest arm or float???

I do both

[JimmyM]

the heel of her hand under the thumb brushes the strings a little but the little finger side never touches the strings.

[Fuzzbass]

Now that I'm getting better with a pick, I float.

[Beginner Bass]

Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method

[cire113]

so she doesnt palm mute or anchor her palm when playing with a pick? ala rest her palm on the strings...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by cire113

so she doesnt palm mute or anchor her palm when playing with a pick? ala rest her palm on the strings...

NEVER! she tapes a piece of felt to the strings and that does all her muting. she's on record saying how damaging palm muting can be to your hand...and considering how my hand starts to ache and throb within seconds of palm muting, i totally believe her. palm muting sounds great, but it takes you way out of the safe movements she espouses.

[beelzelboss]

Originally Posted by Rilander

try anchoring you pinkie on the pickguard (or pickguard area) for stability and a more precise attack.

That is going to give you a VERY bad habit. I learned to play guitar, and one of the most important parts was to NOT put your pinkie on the pickguard/soundboard. It severely limits your ability to jump around on the strings, because your pinky is at the bottom. You want to have the same hand position at every string, simply moving at your elbow (to change from string to string, not to strum, thats a combination of both wrist and a little bit of elbow). That way, you will have a constant attack, if you anchor your pinkie, you have to stretch your hand to make it to the E, or B string. Whichever is lowest.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by beelzelboss

That is going to give you a VERY bad habit. I learned to play guitar, and one of the most important parts was to NOT put your pinkie on the pickguard/soundboard. It severely limits your ability to jump around on the strings, because your pinky is at the bottom. You want to have the same hand position at every string, simply moving at your elbow (to change from string to string, not to strum, thats a combination of both wrist and a little bit of elbow). That way, you will have a constant attack, if you anchor your pinkie, you have to stretch your hand to make it to the E, or B string. Whichever is lowest.

people point out steve swallow as a pick bassist who anchors his pinky and still has a lot of movement. my only answer to that is "you ain't steve swallow" a lot of players play well but have bad habits. doesn't make them any less bad. if you ask carol, anchoring the little finger is downright dangerous. the less you anchor, the more movement you get.

[dubcut]

I sometimes use hybrid picking, used to use it a lot. I use my palm to rest on unused strings, Pinkie stays put on pickguard and middle finger for upstrokes. Ring finger is only for plucks or muting.


I 'graduated' to three-finger style for cleaner sound.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by dubcut

I sometimes use hybrid picking, used to use it a lot. I use my palm to rest on unused strings, Pinkie stays put on pickguard and middle finger for upstrokes. Ring finger is only for plucks or muting.


I 'graduated' to three-finger style for cleaner sound.

"graduated?" yeah, ok, dude. poor carol kaye and steve swallow...still stuck in dullardsville with their picks.

[badstonebass]

I have "palm muted" for 35 years on the guitar...why would it suddenly be BAD on a bass?? Heck when playing guitar many times you are palm muting the WHOLE SONG! I use it for passages on the bass.

If you are talking about tennis elbow the cure is turning the amp up...this softens your attack. I also find that a lighter pick helps as well.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by badstonebass

I have "palm muted" for 35 years on the guitar...why would it suddenly be BAD on a bass?? Heck when playing guitar many times you are palm muting the WHOLE SONG! I use it for passages on the bass.

when you are playing a bass, you are not playing a guitar, and the two experiences are not interchangeable no matter how similar they may seem on the surface. basses have very thick strings and require a lot more effort to make a sound with a pick than guitar strings, especially when you pick by the bridge.

[P. Bass]

Try This:
Fold ALL 4 fingers so the finger tips are about a 1/2" from palm. Lay the pick on the 1ST section of the index finger & clamp it in position gently with the bottom of the KNUCKLE of your thumb. Now use the TIP of your pinky finger as a rest. You will never have cramps or soreness w/ this & it allows you to bring your elbow FORWARD which makes it easy to move the pick hand forward or backward quickly & easily for tone manipulation.

PS: Just put a narrow strip of foam rubber under strings @ bridge for muting. It's been workin' since day 1.

[RobEmpire]

Originally Posted by cire113

I'm trying to avoid any injury when playing with a pick does your hand rest on the strings when playing or held up floating?? I'm trying to pick like carol Kaye not sure if she floats or rests hand on strings...

I do both....actually theres quite a bunch of different techniques with the pick....you should just keep playing til you get a good feel of your own with it.

[pnut166]

I am of the belief that do what`s comfortable, not what others tell you. I`m not discounting taking good advice and following basic principles; on the contrary. But everyone`s muscle, tendon, nerve, bone, and ligament structure is different. What is considered "safe" or "right" for one person or the majority of people may not always be so for another. Pain and fatigue are your #1 indicators that you are doing something wrong. Everyone has to tweak and develop their own way of doing it - much like a golfer`s swing.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by pnut166

I am of the belief that do what`s comfortable, not what others tell you. I`m not discounting taking good advice and following basic principles; on the contrary. But everyone`s muscle, tendon, nerve, bone, and ligament structure is different.

and yet they all look amazingly similar in scans and x-rays

all i can tell you is i didn't believe what carol said until it all started happening to me. every word she said about playing bass with a pick that way being crippling ended up happening to me when i turned 40. and the second i started using her pick method, all the pain i had never happened again unless i deviated from what she teaches.

i see dudes like john wetton having to go through surgeries and having to tape a thumbpick to his thumb, or cliff williams wearing a wrist brace, and it bums me out because it's so easy to prevent that stuff with this method of picking bass. so while you may not be hurting now, you won't get away with it forever. and if you do, you're one of the lucky ones. there are always exceptions to everything in the world. but which is the safer bet...thinking you're the exception or thinking you're not the exception?

[XigXag]

Can you explain to me how palm muting can be dangerous to my hand? Im not familiar with carols advice, and Im just trying to understand. Im just not seeing how muting strings with my palm can do anything damaging. What is the logic behind this? Im honestly just trying to understand this advice.
There must be something Im missing here...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by XigXag

Can you explain to me how palm muting can be dangerous to my hand? Im not familiar with carols advice, and Im just trying to understand. Im just not seeing how muting strings with my palm can do anything damaging. What is the logic behind this? Im honestly just trying to understand this advice.
There must be something Im missing here...

two things...

there is a back and forth movement you make with your wrist that use the strong parts of your hand to do the dirty work on your strokes. when you palm mute, you can't use those strong parts to do your strokes. you end up using weaker areas of the hand, and they get fatigued and sore a lot sooner.

also, when you palm mute, you're playing by the bridge where the string tension is at its greatest, causing you to have to pick extra hard to get sound out. all that gets translated to extra stress on your hands.

to fully understand and appreciate it, you have to master carol's technique. it really does work just as she says it does. it's also pretty generally accepted as the proper technique in jazz guitar circles, although guitar does allow for more leeway to bend the rules than bass because of its piddly little strings