Pickbass Stereotype... WHY?!?!?!

motionkid · #1 08-06-2009, 03:45 PM

Ive been watching alot of Jason Newsteds bass solos on YouTube lately and have been reading some of the comments on there. Many of them say "Jason sucks, he plays with a pick, Burton and Trujillo are better because they play with there fingers" ect... Well, Im just curious what the big hipe is about NOT playing with pick. I even responded to SEVERAL of these comments asking why they say hes not a bass player and never recieved a response from any of them... (kindof ironic eh?

) Ive been switching between fingerstyle and pickstyle for just about as long as Ive been playing bass and for some reason feel when I PICK up a pick that... somebodys going to think "oh my god, hes playing with a PICK!!!! Hes not a bassist because thats a pick in his hand!!!!!" I dont understand it one bit because I admire alot of players of every kind of string plucking style (fingers, pick, slap, ect...)

So could someobody who thinks that playing with a pick doesnt make you a bass player PLEASE enlighten me and explain this to me WHY you think that using a piece of plastic between your fingers to strike the strings makes you less of a bassist than somebody who uses the tworn/hardened flesh on the end of there fingertips to strike the strings?

makanudo · #2 08-06-2009, 03:56 PM

Well i never liked jasons tone.. and lars ulrich said he was watching jamess' left hand all the time, while trujillo focuses on lars.. that to me is better.

Ayliffe · #3 08-06-2009, 05:00 PM

I think the main reason people assume picking bassists are hacks is because 90% of hack bass players use a pick.

Almost anyone who has no idea what they're doing uses a pick.

Now before someone flames.... I'm not saying almost anyone who uses a pick has no idea what they're doing.. but vice versa.

paul_s · #4 08-06-2009, 09:59 PM

The attitude of "picks suck, fingerstyle only" allows you to easily seperate those who are focused on image from those who realize any style of playing (be it pick, finger, slap, or even the side of the thumb!) are merely tools in your sonic toolbox.

There's no point in accepting any one style as the "proper" way to play bass, because none of those styles are. The only "proper" technique, in the loosest sense of the word, is what suites the music and the player. In the bands and with the people I play with I switch between fingerstyle, pick and the side of my thumb, all depending on the music's mood.

Hazak · #5 08-06-2009, 10:18 PM

use whatever depending on the sound you want.a piece of plastic, your fingers, a pen, whatever seriously...

I prefer my fingers because I feel like I have more control overall + the warmer tone. But sometimes, depending on the situation, I prefer using a pick because of the brighter, punchier tone.

A bassist is good because of the sound he makes, not because of how he does it. Some people are very stubborn to understand this.

Lulz · #6 08-07-2009, 02:07 AM

Cliff Burton and Rob Trujillo aren't better than Jason because they use their fingers and he doesn't, they're better than him because they're better bassists.

TerenceSharp · #7 08-07-2009, 02:33 AM

Practically every decent bass player I know uses/has used a pick for something or other.

It's just another tonal quality...

FWIW, I fingerstyle, Pickstyle and slapstyle in my day-to-day playing all withtin the same gig...

Shaun_Bass0 · #8 08-07-2009, 02:49 AM

This is ridiculous guys (as most people say, to be fair!).

I use a pick maybe 75% of the time. When I first started my fav. bands were GnR and Motley Crue (go figure!), so it wasn't a case of "pick is easier, i'll use a pick", but "duff sounds awesome, thats the sound I want". I also think Steve Harris, Cliff Burton and Geezer Butler are awesome, so guess what??? I learned finger style too!!!.

But, oh dear, surely you can't do both. What kind of idiot would do that?. Obviously i'd be much better if I just dropped the pick and limited myself to one way of playing! (you may have guessed i've seen quite a lot of prejudice over this...both on and off these forums)

Another tool, whatever makes the best sound...blah, blah, blah. You get that answer everytime...but only because its true!

It's funny how you always feel better after a bit of a rant...lol

queevil · #9 08-07-2009, 03:12 AM

I don't think there's anything wrong with using a pick but I use fingers. Reasons:

1. It's a more versatile approach for me as far as tone is concerened. I can use different techniques and play over the neck or closer to the bridge. And somewhat along the same lines...

2. I have more control over dynamics. If I try to play softly with a pick I usually end up hearing to much noise from the pick.

3. I like the overall sound better.

4. Hate to say it, but I'm not that good at it. On the guitar I can pivot from the wrist but on a bass I tend to tighten up my arm and shoulder and I start to feel pain in my shoulder after a few minutes. I've never been interested enough in the technique to try and get better at it.

I think the reason pickstyle gets a bad rap is because many bass players who use it don't play very creatively and they tend to play the instrument more like a guitar. They don't give it the voice it deserves. Of course, I'm sure many of us could make a long list of bassists who are wonderful pick players.

I think Newstead is underrated. I think Trujillo isn't a good fit for Metallica. He's too good of a bassist to have his lines buried so far in the mix. Kinda shi**y the way they've always done that.

Steady Eddie · #10 08-07-2009, 04:00 AM

I would bet my fake Fender Mustang that if every famous player used only a pick, no one would play fingerstyle.

CrankenStein · #11 08-07-2009, 04:32 AM

I feel that using a pick gives me more definiton and i think it sounds so much better then fingers which i find dull most of the time.

semajniwdoog · #12 08-07-2009, 05:16 AM

Before electric bass, people were playing upright using a pizzicato style (plucking with fingers). Leo Fender came up the idea of the Percision Bass so the bass could be played "with percision" (not out of tune which is often the case with upright). So, finger style really stems from upright playing and has carried over to electric. Iamgine playing with a pick on the upright! You just couldn't do it. It's really more a traditional thing. I personally, am a snob; finger style all they way. There are only a few bassists (in my mind) that can get away with the use of a pick and that's because they do it to achieve a sound: John Paul Jones, Chris Squire, Sting, Adam Clayton, Mike Anthony.

Budder84 · #13 08-07-2009, 05:47 AM

Phil Lesh & Mike Gordon, all i really need to say.

Personally, I don’t use a pick, but I would never knock a dude who does, as long as he can stick a groove. To me, it’s just another color in the pallet as stated previously.

An interview with Mike Gordon in BP mentioned the use of a pick in his playing. His response was that playing with a pick is much more consistent and better suited for rock music.

I can dig

dougjwray · #14 08-07-2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semajniwdoog

Before electric bass, people were playing upright using a pizzicato style (plucking with fingers). Leo Fender came up the idea of the Percision Bass so the bass could be played "with percision" (not out of tune which is often the case with upright). So, finger style really stems from upright playing and has carried over to electric. Iamgine playing with a pick on the upright! You just couldn't do it. It's really more a traditional thing. I personally, am a snob; finger style all they way. There are only a few bassists (in my mind) that can get away with the use of a pick and that's because they do it to achieve a sound: John Paul Jones, Chris Squire, Sting, Adam Clayton, Mike Anthony.

Correct.
Also, the great early pick players in the studio, Carol Kaye and Joe Osborn, were originally guitarists and they capitalized on Leo Fender's invention-- it was easy for a guitarist to double on a Precision Bass (no studying of bowing, no mastering of intonation, no building up of hand strength).
It's not hard to imagine some upright players who switched to electric bass being a bit envious of the success of converted guitar players, and the snobbery over pick usage is a vestige of that.
(Just my theory.)

derekd · #15 08-07-2009, 10:03 AM

Yeah, I have never seen Carol Kaye without a pick, and no one would accuse her of not being a good player. Matter of preference is all. My preference is fingers only, but certainly doesn't make me a better player.

darkladytaelyn · #16 08-07-2009, 10:31 AM

Point 1: These threads don't usually last very long due to ensuing flames. Haven't seem them yet, but it's likely still coming.

Point 2: Thumbpick Optional style FTW, IMO. I'll switch pick to finger in a wrist flick, sometimes riff to riff - my favorite song to do this is Megadeth's "Hangar 18," where in the outro I like to alternate styles with the two outro riffs. I can't slap with it on, but it hasn't bothered me yet. If I don't like the surge of brightness when I switch to pick, the pinky rolls the tone knob back.

Point 3: The hazing. I'm amazed Jason stayed in that band as long as he did. His playing always felt stifled by the bandleaders, and I think the EQ of the strings in all the albums, but especially "Justice," can prove that. Unless no other instruments are playing, who can tell there even is a bass line?

Point 4: YouTube comments are not a platform for debate nor diplomacy. It's like teaching a pig to sing - it wastes your time and just annoys the pig.

~Taelyn

EricF · #17 08-07-2009, 10:40 AM

Anyone who makes the determination that a particular player is less skilled solely on the basis of using a pick is clearly displaying their own ignorance.

chucko58 · #18 08-07-2009, 11:24 AM

I prefer to play fingerstyle because that's how I was taught, but there are some tones that you can only get with a pick. It depends on the song for me.

I don't diss other players for using a pick. For example, I love Graham Maby's work on the early Joe Jackson albums... and that's all picked on tapewounds! You can't tell me Maby is an inferior player because he used a pick. And you can't get that tone any other way.

motionkid · #19 08-07-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lulz

they're better than him because they're better bassists.

How are they better bassists?

JanusZarate · #20 08-07-2009, 12:13 PM

The biggest reason for all of the pickstyle bashing is mere tradition. Bass has been traditionally played with just your fingers, whereas guitar is traditionally played with a pick.

Pickstyle bashers tend to be excessively self-conscious as bass players. They're not thrilled to be relegated to the background of their band, but they feel safe there. They have been subject to ridicule by their bandmates and are afraid to stray from the norm (whatever that might be in their particular genre of choice). They've been led to believe that "proper" ways of playing bass exist, and straying beyond them will make them more like guitar players or leave them exposed for judgment by their peers. They find comfort in blending in, not standing out.

Their bigotry is rooted in their insecurities.

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