Pinky on the root ? Where Am I ??

[Ace Marconi]

Good Morning,

I have a left hand technique question. I have been playing for about 25 years. I use the one finger per fret method. I tend to play fairly melodic bass fills, in addition to the regular meat and potatoes. Since I have branched out into country & bluegrass music, I have found that there is a whole world of music that works best with the pinky finger on the root note, as opposed to just the middle finger for major keys, and the index for minor keys.

I probably should mention that this mostly involves playing other than root, or first position (nut) on the fretboard. I should also mention that I play B E A D G tuning.

I do not know if this type of thing does not show up often in rock music, or if it just happened because I started playing much more frequently.

I now find myself playing both major, and minor keys with pinky root in many cases, and I have developed a pinky callus, finally. In the last month I have finally found a song that actually works best (no shifting) with the ring finger on the root. (Annabelle - Gillian Welch).

Most of the bass players hereabouts are guitarists who play bass, rather than bass specialists, and attempting to discus these things gets me lots of blank looks, but not much else.

The question in all of that is, Where Am I ? I feel as though I have discovered something, but no one else seems to talk about these aspects of technique. There seems to be some kind of connection to the “Modes in boxes" concept, but ... ?

I would like to see a discussion of this, if only to understand where this path leads.

[jmbjandfam]

Subscribing to this thread to follow this discussion. I learned to play in the church playing worship music and I fell into this routine of playing "pinky" on the root as it seemed the easiest way play from basically a single hand position which was handy since I was singing as well.

Now that I am also playing outside of the church (and not singing) and using 4 strings again, I have the freedom to move around the fretboard much more but like you, I wondered if there was a reason I instinctively chose the "pinky" root method?

[teleharmonium]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you mean.

Are you saying that when the chord of the song changes, you like to first play something other than the root, and then move up from there to the root ? If so, what interval are you starting with, and is there another bass or chordal instrument in the band that is clearly outlining the roots ?

At what positions on the fingerboard are you typically playing roots with your pinky ?

[Nev375]

Originally Posted by Ace Marconi

Good Morning,

I have a left hand technique question. I have been playing for about 25 years. I use the one finger per fret method. I tend to play fairly melodic bass fills, in addition to the regular meat and potatoes. Since I have branched out into country & bluegrass music, I have found that there is a whole world of music that works best with the pinky finger on the root note, as opposed to just the middle finger for major keys, and the index for minor keys.

I probably should mention that this mostly involves playing other than root, or first position (nut) on the fretboard. I should also mention that I play B E A D G tuning.

I do not know if this type of thing does not show up often in rock music, or if it just happened because I started playing much more frequently.

I now find myself playing both major, and minor keys with pinky root in many cases, and I have developed a pinky callus, finally. In the last month I have finally found a song that actually works best (no shifting) with the ring finger on the root. (Annabelle - Gillian Welch).

Most of the bass players hereabouts are guitarists who play bass, rather than bass specialists, and attempting to discus these things gets me lots of blank looks, but not much else.

The question in all of that is, Where Am I ? I feel as though I have discovered something, but no one else seems to talk about these aspects of technique. There seems to be some kind of connection to the “Modes in boxes" concept, but ... ?

I would like to see a discussion of this, if only to understand where this path leads.

I've read through your post twice and I still don't know what your point is or what you are on about.

I play root notes with every finger. It just depends.

[tehbassist]

Traditional bass technique would say you just need to know your scales in all three positions from all three (important) fingers on the left hand.

But that's some double bass methodology slipping in there too...

[jmbjandfam]

I can't speak for the OP but I think what he means is something like this:

Traditional Wisdom: Key of B, you start out with your middle finger on the B and that puts your pinky on the 2nd, your index on the 3rd (one string higher), your middle on the 4th, etc.

His Positioning: Key B, would be to start with the PINKY finger on the B and his question would be what scale pattern does this put you in.

Just my interpretation.

[hennessybass]

Originally Posted by jmbjandfam

I can't speak for the OP but I think what he means is something like this:

Traditional Wisdom: Key of B, you start out with your middle finger on the B and that puts your pinky on the 2nd, your index on the 3rd (one string higher), your middle on the 4th, etc.

His Positioning: Key B, would be to start with the PINKY finger on the B and his question would be what scale pattern does this put you in.

Just my interpretation.

My interpretation too.

[Ace Marconi]

Exactly!

For example, we'll look at one we all play. The regular walking pattern in, lets say Johnny b Goode. First part, middle finger root & walk up and down. Second part Up to the 4 on the next string, again with the middle finger, walk up and back. Third part, pinky on the 5, same string, walk up and back, and back to one.

I would say that this is root on the middle finger, since this starting position lets you do the whole 1,4,5, major progression in this position. Basic rock. Major scale.

I am finding that there is lots of music that works this way with the starting position using the pinky, especially songs that use minor, and major in the related chords of the key. I hope that helps to explain it.

[Ed Fuqua]

Any idea on any finger of the left and right hand, that's the goal. As far as "no shifting", I think that's more a stylistic mind set. As Edgar Meyer said, the most realistic emulation of the voice is to play everything on one string. And while that may be impractical much of the time, I believe that, rather than going through a lot of intricate fingering to maintain a single position, it's easier to phrase in a more vocal and musical fashion by shifting position sin order to maintain (what my teacher calls) the most "elegant" fingering. The idea of staying in one place (as long as possible) on the fingerboard was one of the first things I had to "unlearn" when I switched to DB.

[onosson]

I use that kind of positioning for guitar playing a lot, as it gives me the ability to shift chords up the neck without having to use a capo. I sometimes bring it into my bass playing as well, depending on the specifics of the song. Can be especially useful if you are going downwards from the root to a 6 chord, which will be right where your index finger is on the same string.

[FretlessMainly]

You mention no shifting from the "start with the pinky" technique, but I see a problem there for Major scales but not natural minor (or any minor but harmonic minor, which has the natural 7th). I think you were trying to make this point, but to illustrate it, let's start on A in A Major, fifth fret of the E string:

A (pinky, 5th fret E string)
B (index, 2nd fret A string)
C# (ring, 4th fret A string)
D (pinky, 5th fret A string)
E (index, 2nd fret D string)
F# (ring, 4th fret D string)
G# - (here's the problem; you have to shift positions to finger this note, either on the 6th fret of the D string or the 1st fret of the G string)

For a minor chord with a b7 (e.g., a minor instead of major), you can get the G natural without switching positions (ring, 5th fret D string).

I use a healthy mix of both string crossing and position shifting, mainly because I just have to when improvising and also because position shifting and using any of three fingers (index, middle, pinky) for the root reduces cramping-related fatigue that can occur from staying in one pattern and one position.

[teleharmonium]

Originally Posted by jmbjandfam

I can't speak for the OP but I think what he means is something like this:

Traditional Wisdom: Key of B, you start out with your middle finger on the B and that puts your pinky on the 2nd, your index on the 3rd (one string higher), your middle on the 4th, etc.

His Positioning: Key B, would be to start with the PINKY finger on the B and his question would be what scale pattern does this put you in.

Just my interpretation.

If we're talking about the B at the 7th fret of the E string, that's workable. I'm not seeing a problem with it.

The only way this would be a problem, to me, would be if it was being used even on low frets, like the B at the second fret of the A string. Playing that with the pinky would be pretty much crazy, unless the player is missing some fingers.

[MonetBass]

I think I understand what you're saying. But as Nev375 says, it depends. What it boils down to is that you use whatever finger which will help you get to the next note(s) efficiently; i.e. with minimal hand movement. It seems that you've found that, at least for those particular songs.

[brekfustuvluzer]

I use three different fingerings of the basic (1 octave) major scale. The first one is described above with the middle finger on the root. The second begins with the pointer finger on the root and the third begins with the pinky on the root.

Middle on root (C maj)
fret - (A string) 3 5 (D) 2 3 5 (G) 2 4 5
finger - 2 4 1 2 4 1 3 4

Pointer on root
fret - (A) 3 5 7 (D) 3 5 7 (G) 4 5
finger - 1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2

Pinky on root
fret - (E) 8 (A) 5 7 8 (D) 5 7 (G) 4 5
finger - 4 1 3 4 1 3 1 2

Here is an example of how I would use them: Song progression is GM, BM, DM (it's a very happy song). I would begin in G maj with my middle finger on the root (E string, 3rd fret) and walk to B which is most convenient to reach with my pointer finger so I play that scale like the second example above. Then moving on to the D with my pinky and playing the 3rd pattern shown above. This creates economy of motion. Hope this makes sense. For some reason after posting, all the spacing gets taken out of my examples making them harder to read, sorry.

[Papa Dangerous]

Hmmm.. This made me think for a long moment. I was attempting to think of something that could more advantageous to this method. I could not really think of anything too special that would necessarily make it that much better than any other finger position. I never really thought about it hard body in comparison to the use of the other fingers.

If you play in, let's say F major, you play the B string - 6th fret (F) with your pinky. I imagine you would then play the G with your pointer finger on the E string - 3rd fret. (Correct?). With this set up, if you want, you can play a secondary dominant chord by only shifting up one fret, opposed to shifting down a whole step on the B string. I suppose this could make things a bit easier, maybe quicker if you wanted to modulate to another Major Key, ideally C (If playing in F). This involves a smooth use of the leading tone though. (Just make sure that when you modulate, you make the 7th scale degree [Now B natural] proceed to C on the 1st down beat of the modulation).

I apologize if this is just jargon. I suppose its worth noting that I am considering this from a theoretical point of view, and that usually involves part writing. I do not know how well it will apply to your style and methods of playing. Thought I would just throw it out there

[Ace Marconi]

Alright. We're getting somewhere. So this is a perfectly natural way to play, using the pinky as root, when the song will fit into that box, as opposed to shifting up and down the fretboard. Unfortunately my teacher who started me on this path, many years ago passed on, and I have not found anyone else who seems to know where he was taking me, until now.

The technique seems to make songs portable, up and down, even a half step, if the singer is having an off night. Ed F, I see where you are going as well, and it's where I'm trying to go next as well. Given a choice, do you shift up, or down to get the next shape, assuming both are available ?

[Jazz Ad]

Yves Carbonne made me realize during a masterclass that I needed to work on scales starting with any of 4 fingers. It expands your vision of the instrument by merging the boxes we use to play most of the time.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Ace Marconi

Alright. We're getting somewhere. So this is a perfectly natural way to play, using the pinky as root, when the song will fit into that box, as opposed to shifting up and down the fretboard. Unfortunately my teacher who started me on this path, many years ago passed on, and I have not found anyone else who seems to know where he was taking me, until now.

The technique seems to make songs portable, up and down, even a half step, if the singer is having an off night. Ed F, I see where you are going as well, and it's where I'm trying to go next as well. Given a choice, do you shift up, or down to get the next shape, assuming both are available ?

I thought this was where you were going.

Using shapes is going to get you in trouble one day If you rely on them, you will be on a jam one day, and you'll get out of position to use your favorite shapes and you will end up lost. The term "box" is very appropriate, because that's what they do...put your playing in a box. That's why memorization of the fingerboard and the actual notes under each fret is so important rather than relying on shapes. You can use shapes to learn where those notes are, but once you learn them, forget about shapes.

[Ace Marconi]

Fair enough, Jimmy. My fingers find the pitches I hear in my head. I only realized afterward that these notes seem to form shapes, which seem to correspond somehow to something I read called "Modes in Boxes"

Even so, I have had this happen while playing something unknown. I jump back to the root position and get simple real quick.

I hear people talk about "shapes" though, and I wonder exactly what they mean. Have I come around to this from the opposite direction ?

[JimmyM]

Yes you have.