Playing with 3 fingers, is it really necessary?

[mbc3512]

I've been playing bass for about a month or so and i am starting to wonder if i should change my technique now so it wouldn't be a pain later on. I use my ring finger to mute the string that is below the one i am playing. I use my index and middle finger to play.

Here's the question. I want to play mostly metal stuff when i get better and i am wondering if 3 fingers are really necessary. Since i am REALLY used to my technique(muting with ring finger), i thought maybe i should use other muting methods and progress to 3 finger playing. Is it really necessary? I know steve harris uses only 2 fingers but i don't think i will ever be able to get that speed with only 2 fingers.

How many fingers do you play?
How many fingers do you recommend?

[wagstaff]

Well it's not absolutely needed to be able to play with 3 fingers it sure does help when playing triplets.
I don't see much point in not trying to learn everything you can, opens more doors playing wise.
As for the speed thing, you say you've only been playing a month, if you want to build up speed play along to a metronome starting slowly and progressively speeding it up when you start to feel comfortable playing at that speed fror a cirtain amount of time (3-5 minutes).

As for how many fingers I play with, I mainly play with 2, I use three when playing triplets and cirtain fills, I use my pink to mute if required.

Steve Harris speed might seem a long way away but you get there in no time

Mark

[mbc3512]

Originally Posted by wagstaff

Well it's not absolutely needed to be able to play with 3 fingers it sure does help when playing triplets.
I don't see much point in not trying to learn everything you can, opens more doors playing wise.
As for the speed thing, you say you've only been playing a month, if you want to build up speed play along to a metronome starting slowly and progressively speeding it up when you start to feel comfortable playing at that speed fror a cirtain amount of time (3-5 minutes).

As for how many fingers I play with, I mainly play with 2, I use three when playing triplets and cirtain fills, I use my pink to mute if required.

Steve Harris speed might seem a long way away but you get there in no time

Mark

Thanks for the tips, I'll try the metronome exercise out next time.
Isn't it difficult for you to use 2 fingers and go to 3 fingers for certain fills?
I try 3 fingers and it's like playing a new instrument.

[spit-ink]

Hey there,

I'm new at talkbass but here's my $0.02: I learnt from my teachers that playing with 3 fingers actually screws up with your brain because you need to think in 3s (or triplets) instead of 2s/4s/8s/16s - which means you need to actively accent different notes to make the notes sound even and in 2s/4s/8s/16s pattern instead of triplet 'feel'. I recommend two-finger playing, unless you want to copy Steve Harris' style note-by-note..

So to answer your question, best way to play up to 'speed' (with other metal bassist or any bassist in particular) is practice. Constant, slow practice with a metronome is highly recommended (I know this may sound trite but there really is no other 'shortcuts' ). I play with two fingers, took me months to get the 'feel' of quavers and semiquavers at 80-90bpm.

Practice scales, know them all off by heart, and your fingers will do its magic Don't change the way you play right now, unless you really want to practice Myung-style (which means 6-8 hours on bass everyday..?)

I've been playing bass for about 2 years - mostly jazz/funk stuff, but I've been playing violin for about 10 years, piano about 3. Yes there will be someone else a whole lot more qualified than I am but I just want to help out fellow newbies on the same question that stumped me when I started out.

Hope that helps!

Cheerios!

[mbc3512]

Originally Posted by spit-ink

Hey there,

I'm new at talkbass but here's my $0.02: I learnt from my teachers that playing with 3 fingers actually screws up with your brain because you need to think in 3s (or triplets) instead of 2s/4s/8s/16s - which means you need to actively accent different notes to make the notes sound even and in 2s/4s/8s/16s pattern instead of triplet 'feel'. I recommend two-finger playing, unless you want to copy Steve Harris' style note-by-note..

So to answer your question, best way to play up to 'speed' (with other metal bassist or any bassist in particular) is practice. Constant, slow practice with a metronome is highly recommended (I know this may sound trite but there really is no other 'shortcuts' ). I play with two fingers, took me months to get the 'feel' of quavers and semiquavers at 80-90bpm.

Practice scales, know them all off by heart, and your fingers will do its magic Don't change the way you play right now, unless you really want to practice Myung-style (which means 6-8 hours on bass everyday..?)

I've been playing bass for about 2 years - mostly jazz/funk stuff, but I've been playing violin for about 10 years, piano about 3. Yes there will be someone else a whole lot more qualified than I am but I just want to help out fellow newbies on the same question that stumped me when I started out.

Hope that helps!

Cheerios!

Oh, now it's clear. I thought playing with three fingers just meant super fast picking but considering triplets i think i should just stay with two fingers and practice.
And maybe use three fingers for certain beats.

[CYDbass]

For me, playing rock songs I am ok for 99% of the time with two fingers. I use some three-finger triplets in the fills on My Generation but that's the only time I have (of yet) found need for it in a rock band situation. So what I guess I'm saying is that you can probably get by without.
However, it's fun to be different isn't it ! I do work on several other ways of playing, three fingers being one (going Index, Middle, Ring, Middle in a pattern of 4 mostly).
My method of trying that would be to try practicing a scale using the three fingers, top to bottom. Play one note with each finger, moving over the strings. Then move up a semitone and do the same, but this time you will be starting on a different finger so play through again in the same way, with your good friend Mr Metronome on a pretty slow speed.
Repeat the exercise and you should start to notice an improvement. My playing in that style is still not that good, but it has had a marked improvement since starting this way. And this wont do what the previous poster mentioned because you are still essentially thinking in groups of 4.

Hope that helps! Good luck

[mbc3512]

Originally Posted by CYDbass

For me, playing rock songs I am ok for 99% of the time with two fingers. I use some three-finger triplets in the fills on My Generation but that's the only time I have (of yet) found need for it in a rock band situation. So what I guess I'm saying is that you can probably get by without.
However, it's fun to be different isn't it ! I do work on several other ways of playing, three fingers being one (going Index, Middle, Ring, Middle in a pattern of 4 mostly).
My method of trying that would be to try practicing a scale using the three fingers, top to bottom. Play one note with each finger, moving over the strings. Then move up a semitone and do the same, but this time you will be starting on a different finger so play through again in the same way, with your good friend Mr Metronome on a pretty slow speed.
Repeat the exercise and you should start to notice an improvement. My playing in that style is still not that good, but it has had a marked improvement since starting this way. And this wont do what the previous poster mentioned because you are still essentially thinking in groups of 4.

Hope that helps! Good luck

Thanks for the exercise i will definitely try that. I just watched billy sheehan's video about playing with three fingers in groups 4 and now i fully understand.
I think it will be a useful technique after getting used to.

[ptolemny]

Originally Posted by mbc3512

I've been playing bass for about a month or so and i am starting to wonder if i should change my technique now so it wouldn't be a pain later on. I use my ring finger to mute the string that is below the one i am playing. I use my index and middle finger to play.

Here's the question. I want to play mostly metal stuff when i get better and i am wondering if 3 fingers are really necessary. Since i am REALLY used to my technique(muting with ring finger), i thought maybe i should use other muting methods and progress to 3 finger playing. Is it really necessary? I know steve harris uses only 2 fingers but i don't think i will ever be able to get that speed with only 2 fingers.

How many fingers do you play?
How many fingers do you recommend?

Whatever gets the job done. Jamerson played with one finger.

[Fergie Fulton]

This link gives you some ideas to consider.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=519267158

[rational baze]

I say learn both but don't do what I did a few years ago.

I switched exclusively to using three fingers using it on everything even slow stuff.[on a Billy Sheehan buzz]
It worked at the time maybe because I was playing mostly rock and metal.although as my taste in music changed and the styles I was playing I realised the third finger was redundant for most stuff.I've paid the price too it took me a long time to get my 2 finger chops back.

[LowB-ing]

I do practice with three finger quite a bit. I don't actually USE it that often, but when I do, it's the only way (for me) to pull certain things off, so that's why I put the time and effort in.

It's only neccessary to learn if you're planning to play REALLY fast, but not to complicated, stuff. It's a good fit for some forms of metal that I happen to like. Complicated stuff is often more difficult to pull off wit three fingers, than with two, due to the amount of coordination required.

If you're going down this path it's a good idea to start early, 'Cause it's going to take alot of practice time to get good at it, regardless if you are already good with two fingers or not. I suggest making it a "side project" in youre practice regime. Practicing strictly three finger right hand technique say, 15 mins/day. Don't try to go three fingers exclusively because you will need to be able to play with two fingers also to be able to pull off some stuff. Well, at least for the next five years or so

When I practice standard two finger tecnique, I almost exclusively play triplets, in order to achieve control over accents. When I practice three fingers I mostly practice straight 16ths for the same reason. The three finger excercises I make up are mostly in 3/4 though. That way you're shifting the accent finger on every beat, but you're always coming back to your starting finger on the one, making the excercise repetitive and easier to remember/internalize (for me anyway). I always pracice "starting" with each of the three fingews though. When practicing triplets I also practice "leading" with each of the the three fingers also.

I always go in sequence ring, middle, index, r ,m, i, r, m, i, starting on any of the three. I see NO POINT in going r, m, i, m, r, m, i, m, as the middle finger will play every other note and limit you to two finger speeds. (Except for the odd situation when there's a specific string-skip or left hand / right hand coordination issue that favours that particular sequence, but that can be true of ANY sequence.)

[Beginner Bass]

I'm working on my 3-finger speed. From what I understand, it makes extra speed possible, but it's not required. Lots of amazing players use only 2 fingers and get speeds you could hardly imagine getting to with 8 fingers. But 3 fingers allow for speed to be obtained more easily. It just needs practice.

[lomo]

I've been playing as a hobby for 8 yrs. Started using 3 fingers quite a bit 1 yr a go. For fast triplets or 16th notes it allows me to play MUCH faster.

[CYDbass]

Originally Posted by LowB-ing

I always go in sequence ring, middle, index, r ,m, i, r, m, i, starting on any of the three. I see NO POINT in going r, m, i, m, r, m, i, m, as the middle finger will play every other note and limit you to two finger speeds. (Except for the odd situation when there's a specific string-skip or left hand / right hand coordination issue that favours that particular sequence, but that can be true of ANY sequence.)

Since it was me that posted about the I,M,R,M combination st start with I thought I'd reply to this. Starting by saying you make a very good point, I hadn't thought of it like that!

For starting off, having never used your ring finger to play with, I think it works well as an exercise because it adds to the variation (i.e. having an extra combination to practice. By this i mean you can start with Index than use Middle next to play a scale, move onto starting on Middle then playing Ring next, then Ring > Middle and finally Middle > Index).

I hope that made sense!

But I'm sure, like you said, just sequencing R,M,I could do just as much.
I do struggle to think of ways in which the 4 note pattern would be beneficial over just using 2 fingers, but I'd just like to have it in my arsenal anyway. Although I'm also going to have a look at just using the three as you suggested, as I think the OP should so thanks!

[dj150888]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

This link gives you some ideas to consider.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=519267158

Well written blog there Fergie.

[Gopher Bob]

necessary? no

worth it? yes

however do not let it get in the way of making music

[blendermassacre]

"really necessary" and "will make your bass playing easier / better in the long run" are two different things. Need? No. But will you wish you had learned before you were dead set in your technique? I bet so, down the road

[LowB-ing]

I also sometimes practice two fingers using only ring and middle. It helps building strength in my ring finger which is noticably weaker than the other two. It also helps building coordination/independance between ring and middle which is also somewhat lacking for me.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by dj150888

Well written blog there Fergie.

Glad you liked it, to sum it up its your brain getting in the way with these techniques not the fingers.
As some have rightly said already it makes no real difference what fingers you use or start on, the brain will get in the way. part of stopping that happening is to accustom the brain to what's going on, hence the change of thinking to one and two and one and two and so on.
This will help with any two finger technique and because it is the same principal applied, (the "and" always folows a one or a two), to a three finger, (again the and always follows a one or a two) or four finger technique,( again the "and" always follows a one or a two).
A one or a two always has an "and" between them, it helps because the brain does not really need to change the counting function to relate to a beat, that put the job on the fingers, so this form of counting frees the brain from trying to relate to fingers or a beat, in other word relating a dominant finger to a dominant beat.

Since most playing situations are one two forms of counting the sub division then becomes standard so to speak for all the finger techniques as the "and" has no real significance to the brain other than a means of going from one to the two.
If we put an emphasis in working in threes we get triplets or gallops on the bass, since there is no three involved in these techniques, i have developed, the brain accepts it better.
You can go A-B-C-B-A rather than 1 and 2 and 1, or replace it with any words ( i love you love i love you love) of your choice that allow you to move back and forwards.

We think of the emphasis on the one or the two, the "and" is a feel, but a feel we can harness to take the emphasis of the one two, so there is no thinking just motion.

[Roy Vogt]

Gary Willis uses a variation on the technique you describe, although he may also use 3 fingers on occasion. Although he's playing a different style, he certainly has Steve Harris speed. I've never needed 3 fingers, neither has John (Juan) Alderete of Racer-X and Mars Volta or Jeff Berlin. However, since you're a newbie I say try it all.
I have always looked at 2 finger technique like running-one foot and then the next. If you keep your motion economical you can play with 2 fingers at speeds "fast enough to get fired"