Playing Bass and Singing

Timbo99 · #1 10-15-2008, 07:21 PM

Not sure whether this is the right forum but here goes....

I play bass in a hard rock covers band. I also sing. I want to do the two together and I'm finding it extraordinarily hard to do. Basically it seems to me that as a bass player, the notes and accents you play are more often than not out of synch. with the vocal melody. So I find that if I start singing it alters my bass playing negatively...
I also play guitar and don't have the same problem singing and playing guitar - perhaps because the vocal and guitar parts tend to mesh much more easily - not sure.

Somehow I feel like I need to find a way to detach the part of my brain that plays the bass from the part that sings (if that makes sense).

So I'm just wondering whether there are any other bass players out there who have experienced similar problems and if there are any particular techniques they may have used or any useful tips.

jarrod cunningham · #2 10-15-2008, 07:29 PM

when i first switched over to fronting my band and playin bass together , i had to simplify my bass lines a lot until i got use to doin it together . make sure you hear the kick really good on stage or in your monitor and stay hooked in there with a simple bass line for a while . also to mention we were a 3 piece while i was singing , playin bass , and runnin sound !!! god im glad those days are long ass gone !!!! now we have a singer front man again and hired a full time sound guy .... hang in there with it or get a singer like i did ....

mrokern · #3 10-15-2008, 07:33 PM

It just takes plowing through it. You'll eventually get better and better at it.

One thing you should do (if you haven't already) is to learn your bass parts inside, outside, left, right, up, down. Know them like the back of your hand, to the point where your brain can go on holiday and your muscles will still keep the groove going.

Once you know a song that well on the bass, you can focus more on your singing and let your hands do their thing.

-Mark

Timbo99 · #4 10-15-2008, 07:43 PM

Thanks for the advice guys.

Yeah we're a 3 piece at the moment and got an awesome sound going but having a hell of a time finding a decent vocalist - in the meantime I'm filling in.
I actually love singing so I want to do both.

BTW mrokern, Rush - greatest band in the universe IMO!! Particularly their first dozen albums. I still got all my old original vinyl LPs of theirs....

Deacon_Blues · #5 10-16-2008, 01:16 PM

If you practice it, it will get better over time. Regarding trickier parts, you just have to analyze them and how they relate time-wise to each other. Practice these parts in slow motion until you have them down, then speed up.

Simplify if you still can't keep a good groove going and sing at the same time.

I've been singing and playing bass for 7 years now. It was tough in the beginning when I switched from guitar, but now it's for the most part second nature. I'm never playing very advanced lines though as the music I play don't usually require that. I play mostly classic rock, pop, and soul/funk.

jgroh · #6 10-16-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo99

BTW mrokern, Rush - greatest band in the universe IMO!!

Well, you cant argue with the truth

standupright · #7 10-16-2008, 01:29 PM

i ran into this problem as well. i found that i was extremely emotionally attached to the bass when playing, and trying to emote through singing just screwed up my playing. like already mentioned, simplify at first, keep practicing, learn to separate your attachment to playing so that it becomes second nature so that you can focus on singing. eventually it will start to click. one thing i do in my car while driving is to fret the steering wheel, pluck the the shifter knob, and sing to whatever i'm listgening to, just to try and get comfortable with allowing my brain to handle the rythm and singing.

staindbass · #8 10-16-2008, 01:29 PM

its cool, we all felt the same thing. yes, its like being split into two separate people. it feels really neat when u first get it. nowadays i can play and sing in key at the same time while daydreaming about what my dog might be doing at home in front of 10,000 people. the wonders of second nature. if your having trouble, your choosing too compicated stuff to start with. try some songs with simpler basslines at first. its alot of work. johnny a

chaosMK · #9 10-16-2008, 01:37 PM

I am starting to give vocals a shot too. On the easy 4/4 riffs, I can't do anything. On my odd time sig tapping, the vocals come right out.

Sahm · #10 10-16-2008, 01:38 PM

I recommend using a program like Amazing Slow Downer, or anything that slows the song down without changing the pitch. If there's a section I'm just not getting, I slow it down to about %60 speed and loop it, playing and singing along about hundred times, then bump it up at %5 increments until I can play it at full speed.

etoncrow · #11 10-16-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrokern

One thing you should do is to learn your bass parts inside, outside, left, right, up, down. Know them like the back of your hand, to the point where your brain can go on holiday and your muscles will still keep the groove going. Once you know a song that well on the bass, you can focus more on your singing and let your hands do their thing.

This is exactly on the money. It is called "Muscle Memory" and it works. I have played drums and bass while singing and by extensive practicing you can actually turn off part of your brain as mentioned to focus on the vocals, pitch, etc....

BruisedOoze · #12 10-16-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etoncrow

This is exactly on the money. It is called "Muscle Memory" and it works. I have played drums and bass while singing and by extensive practicing you can actually turn off part of your brain as mentioned to focus on the vocals, pitch, etc....

Muscle memory sometimes freaks me out. There was one time I was just noodling around and then I played some 4 or 5 note passage which felt really familiar and comfortable and sounded kind of familiar. I sat there boggled at why it felt so weird. Then I just let the fingers do the work without thinking about it. The next thing I noticed I had played 6 or 7 ore. By then I recognized what it was and was able to figure out the remainder of the passage.

The piece was from a baritone (many pieces didn't have bass parts so I filled in Tuba, Baritone etc quite often) part in an overture that I played in highschool 10 years before this incident. It was a portion that was repeated ad nauseum during music class because of a couple trombone players.

Timbo99 · #13 10-19-2008, 08:11 PM

Thanks again all for the great advice. Seems like practise is the key. Now all I gotta do is find the time...

seventhson · #14 10-19-2008, 11:08 PM

a good exercise is to try sweet emotion by aerosmith. why? because the bass riff is not too hard and just loops and the vocal is very easy...so they are extremely easy to master individually (i.e., muscle memory mentioned above), but putting them together is hella hard (at least for me). it's almost exactly like juggling. you need to train your brain to keep track of two things at the same time.

the other thing to do is to turn your vocal mic UP and your bass DOWN. You need to sing loud with confidence and conviction, and that will make your vocal phrasing correct and a lot more detached/independent from what you are playing on the bass. otherwise, you'll fall into the trap where your bass part controls how you sing.

conte2music · #15 10-19-2008, 11:18 PM

Try something with a two feel...then move to a walking bass line to gain the initial independance. While your right hand pounds out the steady quarter notes...you can worry about your left hand and the vocals...from there move onto tunes with more variation in the bass. Here's me trying... :-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48QvvYIgimc