Playing Jazz

[LowEnder2112]

so the other day i was watching the takoma park jazzfest and it finally hits me that...the main bass style i don't understand is jazz.
I play Iron Maiden kind of metal and rush and guns n roses type stuff.

But when it comes to jazz...it just seems so confusing.
I know pentatonics and how to play funk and slap and pop etc..but i personally don't like slap and pop..it's just not me.

So how does jazz work with bass? I know it's a complicated and probably has answers in a broad range of possibilities...but..thats what it comes down to.

How do you play jazz? i noticed mixing pentatonic with some chromatics can sound jazzy but...i'm just lost here..

is there anyway to learn this style without hiring a bass teacher?

i don't think i'd have a problem with technacality by the way, i think i've developed speed and all kinds of techniques to learn mostly everything you can throw at me. So any help please?

Thanks.

Mark

[Jazzin']

First, listen to a lot of jazz. There are a bunch of threads around TB with recommendations for what you should get started on. Listen to the basslines carefully. Most of them are walking basslines (one quarter-note every beat, going up and down). These lines are built off of the chord progressions of the tunes.

Find some walking bassline tutorials on the internet to get started on how to improvise your own lines based on chords.

What you should then do is then try to find the sheet music and/or chords (but especially the chords) to some of the songs you've listened to. Try to start off with easy ones and that you already heard of. Build walking basslines on them by following the chords as they change. If you know your chords and scales, then it is fairly simple. But you still got to get the hang of it. I highly recommend that you make sure you know all the common chords (Xmaj7, Xmin7, X7, etc....) and what scales fit around them.


A teacher and/or a book on walking basslines would be the better, but more expensive route.

[Ed Fuqua]

Well to asnwer your question in a different way, think about language. You can think about a lot of other kinds of music, like classical or much rock, as being like a play. Somebody somewhere sits down and writes a bunch of things for different people to say and the order in which they are supposed to say them. So anybody anywhere in the world can pick up a copy of that (notated or recorded) and learn the part of, say Hamlet, and get together with a bunch of other people who have learned the parts of Laertes and Ophelia etc etc and perform the play HAMLET. Replace HAMLET with SMOKE ON THE WATER or BEETHOVEN'S 4TH SYMPHONY and LAERTES with GUITAR and whatever, well you see how the analogy works.

Well jazz, is more like a conversation. Not a "hey how you doing? pretty good and you" kind of conversation, but one in which the speakers are trying to convey some fairly deep thoughts about the state of the universe and true poetic beauty. And in such a way that you can get a sense of the beauty of the language that they are using.

playing jazz, it'snot so much that you are playing a SONG as it is you are using the melody and harmony of that song as a VERY loose framework in which to express some sense of yourself and how you "hear" the world.

[LowEnder2112]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

.....playing jazz, it's not so much that you are playing a SONG as it is you are using the melody and harmony of that song as a VERY loose framework in which to express some sense of yourself and how you "hear" the world.

Now this right here confuses me...and i've asked some jazz professionals at a local guitar center(lol) the same thing and the response is always some kind of "soul thing" or "expression of ones self"... .. but...i never think about music in that way. So i always feel like theres some secret to jazz that no one wants to tell me. I feel like just saying "cut to the chase...hows it done?"...

[Sarbecue Boss]

there is no cutting to the chase, jazz is a very deep music that heavily invovles improvisation.

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, it's a skill set. Hearing chords (harmony) and hearing not only how they are built but their function as well, being able to hear a multiplicity of function and being able to hear with enough clarity your internal line and being able to get that out and communicate it to the other musicians (and anybody else listening) how you are hearing that particular set of harmony.

to add to what Jazzin said, you not only have to know major minor diminished augmented , with all the tensions, you have to be able to HEAR them in the heat of the moment. And respond in a personal fashion.

Again, think about conversation. When somebody walks up to you and asks why you got involved in music in the first place, maybe you have a stock response that's the first thing out of your mouth. But that leads them to ask another question and to answer that you have to think about WHAT you want to say and then FIND the words you want to say it with. Which will lead to a statement or question from them and the whole process just grows. You don't say stuff that you say all the time, you don't stay stuff you memorized, the conversation is extemporaneous and free flowing and all about responding NOW.
Now the whole process of WHAT and FIND are kind of simultaneous, becuase you tend to think of things in the words you want to use to say them.

But imagine trying to do that in a language you don't speak well. In order to speak it well, you have to assimilate a lot of different things - vocabulary, context, intent, execution etc etc etc. Jazz is like that. Which is very profound.

Like gumbo.

[mikeypbass]

This may sound horrible, but a get a couple or a few lessons till u get semi-comfortable walking, then after that, get your hands on some Frank Sinatra charts and write your own lines to those (this is what I'm doing at the moment)

[TheBassBetween]

Ah, well, jazz really is the hardest for a bass player because it's so dynamic. With rock, pop, funk-- it's all usually the same lick over and over, but jazz is where the bassist needs to "improvise" a bass line, using a given chart.

There are various methods and approaches to building walking bass lines. Most confuse the hell out of me, but just look around a bit, and you'll find more than you'd like to know about jazz bass.

[Jim Breece]

From a strictly practical point of view, know the chord tones of the changes and the scales that go with them. Play a pretty straight quarter note line, let the drummer add the rhythmic spice most of the tme. Play chord tones on one and three, find cool notes in between to make a sensible line, mixing up chord and non chord tones. You don't have to be on the root on the one, but have a reason when you're not. How much do the guys you hear move by step, and how often is it by jump? Much more stepwise movement in jazz than in rock or funk. Play as suggested until you get a feel and then break all of these rules as needed. You can get through lots of gigs as outlined above. I'm trying to answer the question I think you're asking from the standpoint of a rock/r&b/country guy who branched out, and this is my very short take on what makes a workable standard walking bassline, not what makes great jazz. IMO when you're jumping in to "the canon" it's better to limit your part of the conversation until you have more things to say and more ways to say it.

[Linkert]

1. Get awsome girl/boyfriend (she cook, clean and get crazy in bed)
2. Break up with her.
3. Cry your soul out with your bass with other sad men/girl.

[ryco]

Dig around in this free handbook to get some ideas. This guy is very thorough explaining a lot of basic stuff about what jazz music is and how to begin exploring it.

http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merch...Code=_HANDBOOK

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[Alan Vorse]

I'm afraid there's no "cutting to the chase." It's the kind of thing that takes a long time to understand and do well.

One of the first things you should do is learn about scales and their modes beyond pentatonic.

GET A TEACHER!

[Jepus]

Best way to learn Jazz is to play it with other jazz musicians.
It's what I did, I got in on a jam session once a week with some fairly established jazzists (?) and just dived right in. Sure I was crap at first but eventually I got the hang of it and started becoming more proficient.
Practising you're own walking lines to a recorded piece of music is all well and good but unless you're grooving with some musicians I don't think you'll ever really understand jazz.

[CamMcIntyre]

I think Ed has explained it as much as will be possible without you "getting it". That probably sounds a bit mean-i have no such intentions.

Playing jazz, to me, is like having a great (ideally) conversation with friends. Everyone contributes something to it that can make you guys sit back and go "wow". The experience may be different every time. This is why i love hearing live jazz-even the kid who is at his first jam session to the most experienced cat on the scene.

I like to think of Rock/Pop music as more of a play or even a lecture. There's a set direction, a set course, and very little will change one time to the next.

If you listen to enough jazz, you'll start to "get it." and what people have said to you about it will start to make sense. It took me awhile, but i'm finally starting to be able to communicate in the language-not at the most experienced level, but probably like a middle school kid. I've learned a chunk of the basics, and i'm starting to be able to think on levels i couldn't before.

[Standalone]

One great source for Jazz is NYC's (well, Newark, NJ) jazz station. Go to WBGO.org and listen as much as you can.

To give you an idea of how much I needed to listen to it before I started to "get it," I had WBGO playing constantly for the 5 years I lived in the city, and was still not quite ready to transition from rocker/jammer to jazzer when I joined a jazz group here in Connecticut.

It's not too far of a journey to go back from metal to the blues, hang a sharp left and go down the Jazz road.

[Jazzin']

Originally Posted by Jepus

Best way to learn Jazz is to play it with other jazz musicians.
It's what I did, I got in on a jam session once a week with some fairly established jazzists (?) and just dived right in. Sure I was crap at first but eventually I got the hang of it and started becoming more proficient.
Practising you're own walking lines to a recorded piece of music is all well and good but unless you're grooving with some musicians I don't think you'll ever really understand jazz.

That's what I just started doing this summer.

[Jazzerbone]

I'm going to really impress on listening. You have got to listen to alot of jazz to be able to play it well. You have got to know the theory and have the technique, but that only tells you where to go. You've got to know what it is supposed to sound like though, and that's why you listen.

Listening and playing with other good players is how you learn to "swing". What I mean by "swing" is being able to feel the music. Like being able to groove. I have heard great players play all the right notes and rhythms and sound like total crap. They didn't know how to swing. You've got to be able to hear the style. If you can't hear in your own mind what you want to sound like before you play, you're just shooting in the dark.

Also, it should be mentioned that the term "jazz" covers a huge range of styles and movements in music. Most music we hear today has grown itself out of jazz. Here is what I was taught what made jazz.

Rhythm
Improvisation
Interpretation
Form
Sounds associated with jazz

[dvh]

I got into jazz not quite a year ago. I also had a good grasp of more "popular" kinds of music and bass playing beforehand.

I feel like I'm still scratching the surface (but the guitarist keeps reassuring me and he's the most accomplished of us - formal training).

A smooth, walking bassline that carries the groove, hits those root notes in the right places, and has some dynamics and interest is one of the most difficult forms out there.

Yes, it's a technical thing and a feeling thing (like all bass playing, I guess). But with jazz you need to be really versed in the technical before you can just groove on the feeling.

Most of the advice above is very good:

- listen to other jazz bassists
- get to know the scales and modes
- practice
- play with some friendly cats
- repeat ad infinitum in no particular order
- enjoy!

[HaVIC5]

...so the other day i was watching the takoma park jazzfest and it finally hits me that...

Hey, I go to that every year!

[jazzcrime]

the two things that will help you learn to play jazz are:

1. listening to jazz, listen to the greats find out what you like and figure it out. my lecturers at uni always tell me you should IMITATE, ASSIMILATE and INNOVATE.

2. know your jazz theory! in mark levine's 'the jazz theory book' (which is a fantastic book that i highly recommend) he says;
'a great jazz solo consists of:
1% magic
99% stuff that is
explainable
analyzable
categorizeable
doable'
in other words THEORY!

hope this helps.