Playing Less vs. More in Black/Death?

[idoru]

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

Another (kinda related) question: What kind of pick would you use for tremolo picking on bass???

I find the heavys (1.14mm) don't work at all. Been experimenting with thins (0.5mm), and it seems to be working better...

3mm Jim Dunlop "Big Stubby"

And no, I'm not kidding - I played in a grindcore band for a while.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by idoru

3mm Jim Dunlop "Big Stubby"

And no, I'm not kidding - I played in a grindcore band for a while.

I think I have one of those lying around somewhere.....

So a thicker pick works better....

[idoru]

I found it adds more definition to your tone - very important at death tempos, of course. Pretty easy to play, but every now and again I'd dig a little too deep and miss the following note or two.

[*smb]

I'd say "under" but your example sucks. When the guitarist is trem-picking or whatever, this is your chance to come up from under them by starting with the root and then using a quick fill to jazz the bass up a bit. It makes a huge difference to the music.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by idoru

I found it adds more definition to your tone - very important at death tempos, of course. Pretty easy to play, but every now and again I'd dig a little too deep and miss the following note or two.

Thanks for the advice...

Originally Posted by *smb

I'd say "under" but your example sucks. When the guitarist is trem-picking or whatever, this is your chance to come up from under them by starting with the root and then using a quick fill to jazz the bass up a bit. It makes a huge difference to the music.

It's just one example of the idea.... though I will experiment with/listen for the fill idea

[All_¥our_Bass]

He was trying to come up with something without thinking too mucm. He was really trying to portray the idea that the bass isn't playing as fast as the g*****s.

[yaniv]

u can make 2 versions of it
if the drummer is just blasting away with no mercy then the tremolo picking would sound great
but u can use the "under" version if the drummer takes a little rest and every time u play a note the drummer hits the crash or another cymbal and mutes it quickly so you and the drummer will kinda emphasize the guitar

[yaniv]

*out of it

[TheButler]

I am in a 'symphonic metal' band at the moment. For some songs playing''under'' the guitar is more suited and for others playing with it is more suited. Alot of it depends on what your drummer is doing. As for the mention of tremelo picking ... well personally i find fast fingerstyle more suitable, this may just be because the genre of music we're aiming at does not perhaps require the same amount of 'attack' a pick gives

[Nyarlathotep]

2 and a 1/2 month bump in case anyone else wants to give any advice

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

2 and a 1/2 month bump in case anyone else wants to give any advice

You asked for it.

Well first of all, I really don't see how you can put death and black metal together, they are so different, so I'll treat it as two different questions.

For death, I'd say either double the guitars, or play half notes, if it is a busy part of the song. Either will do, you'll probably be the only one that can tell a difference. When there's tons of stuff going on, you don't want to play harmonies or something too different, because then it will just sound like a mess.
When its a more "evil" riff, with crazy harmonies or scales, I'd agree with the person above that said to do wicked bass harmonies. I'd say Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse) does a good job of this often.
Good old progressive style riffs are very good too, but pretty much pointless if it's supposed to be a straightforward "we're playing something really fast now" style riff.

For black metal, I think it's much harder to decide. In black metal, there's pretty much always going to be lots of stuff going on at once, and you going off doing your own thing might add to the messyness, but this might actually be good for some bm songs.
I don't know bm very well, but for some cool examples of bass going out doing its own thing sometimes, listen to Borknagar and Vintersorg (DiGiorgio has played with Vintersorg).

Cheers

[burngeorgesbush]

when i was playing bass alot i found tremolo picking to be fairly hard to do on bass. now i have just got back into bass (i have been playing mostly guitar for the last 2-3 years) i am gonna have to work on it. i find i have to tweak my tone a lot and since i like mostly bass with little treble i have had to comprimise and add more top end to make it sound intelligible. the main problem i have is that i can trem pick so much faster on guitar (even two string stuff i can pick quicker than bass). the other problem with bass is gonna be response. you want it to have as much attack as possible, either way you can only play so fast because the strings won't respond quick enough to keep up with a guitar. as for picks i am experimenting again but i find the best way to chose a pick is as follows.

for bass you want the thinnest sharp pick you can find that is reasonably stiff. it has to have a little bit of bend in it tho. for me this can be either a dunlop tortex (tortex is much stiffer than nylons of the same size) 0.7mm or a 0.6mm (the 6 is more for guitar tho cause it isn't quite as stiff as a 7). but this is just my opinion, try a few picks out and see which one you are most confy with

[metalguy2]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

You asked for it.

Well first of all, I really don't see how you can put death and black metal together, they are so different, so I'll treat it as two different questions.

For death, I'd say either double the guitars, or play half notes, if it is a busy part of the song. Either will do, you'll probably be the only one that can tell a difference. When there's tons of stuff going on, you don't want to play harmonies or something too different, because then it will just sound like a mess.
When its a more "evil" riff, with crazy harmonies or scales, I'd agree with the person above that said to do wicked bass harmonies. I'd say Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse) does a good job of this often.
Good old progressive style riffs are very good too, but pretty much pointless if it's supposed to be a straightforward "we're playing something really fast now" style riff.

For black metal, I think it's much harder to decide. In black metal, there's pretty much always going to be lots of stuff going on at once, and you going off doing your own thing might add to the messyness, but this might actually be good for some bm songs.
I don't know bm very well, but for some cool examples of bass going out doing its own thing sometimes, listen to Borknagar and Vintersorg (DiGiorgio has played with Vintersorg).

Cheers

Black Metal and Death Metal are relatively the same.

[Descent2Cocytus]

my guitar player tremolo picks and i play triplets, i don't know if you would consider that with the guitar or not, but i chose with.

[basey]

I think the style of playing in thrash/grind/death/speed has alot to do with what kind of tone your rig is putting out.
If your going for a distorted napalm thing you might as well take a supporting role. sometimes you can thow in a nice lick or run but most of the time no one will here your shredding anyway. If you have a strong clean sound then you might have more luck sticking out (walking, counter-melodies) in the tunes.(a compressor helps with this, too)
I think someone said before in this thread that you have to do what the song wants you to do.

[JeffTheBig]

being mostly a metal player. everything from death/black to the more Progressive metal end im playing at now i find that a mix of both is really good. if u play too much it can sound bad and if u play not enought it can sound bad ....theres a happy mid there. but its up to you what the sound your looking for. if u want a really bassie sound played on every 2ed note rather than every note but if u want a grindy fast sound keep up of play in the middle.

Jeff

[JeffTheBig]

E ---------------------------------
B ---------------------------------
G ---------------------------------
D ---------------------------------
A -----------------1-1-1-1---------
E -0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0---------3-3-3-3-

Bass:
G --------------------------------
D --------------------------------
A ------------------1-1-1-1-------
E -0--0--0--0--0--0---------3--3--


somthing like this....