Playing open...What should I do?

[txbasschik]

The drummer in the band I am currently in played bass for a short time. He first started on guitar.

He asked me, at practice, why I play up on the five so much. I told him that it is easier for me. When I play open, I lose control over my sound, and lose track of where I am, note-wise. Playing on the five is like a placemarker for me. I can get up or down the neck easily from there. I only play open strings when I have to.

He says that all the best, most-fluid bassists play open, and that it kills him to see my little fingers all over the neck. He feels my sound and playing would be better if I played open.

But I make tons more mistakes when I play open!

So...should I try to learn to play open as much as possible, or not? I don't *like* to...it is uncomfortable. I know my fingers *look* funny when I play on the five, but *I* don't *feel* funny. I feel more confident!

Who is right? Should I try to do what he says?

In case this helps, I've been primarily playing rock...classic, garage, and alternative. Also, alt-country. This new band is primarily blues and soul.

Cherie

[indykrap]

Yeah, I know what you mean. My old band had a lot of reliance on that big open drop-d note, haha, so I hear that. All it takes is some practice for control to get the right touch, and it should be fine.

[radmin]

It will sound different. Playing on fret five moves the pickup closer to the center of the string's vibrating length. This will strengthen the fundamental and weaken the overtones which will make it boomy-er.

Personally I don't use open strings. 1.) my arm tends to go numb if I play in first position too long. With a 5 string everything I need is closer to me. 2.) they are harder to mute quickly. At fret five I just lift up and the sound goes away.

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by indykrap

Yeah, I know what you mean. My old band had a lot of reliance on that big open drop-d note, haha, so I hear that. All it takes is some practice for control to get the right touch, and it should be fine.

Yeah, the control thing is kinda hard for me. I end up having sustain from the first note affecting the sound of the 2nd note.

The hardest thing, for me, though, is keeping track of where I am when playing open. I miss tons of notes that way. But not when I play on the five. We're a 3-piece, so I have feel that playing the right note was more important. When you're just three, and the bass makes an error, it is so obvious...there is nothing to cover you. I'm new to the band, and don't know their songs very well, so I am making correct notes the priority right now.

Well...I can try practicing more open scales and see if that helps. I told him I'd prefer to get the songs down correctly, *then* worry about open strings, but he kept after me and kept after me. So, I guess I have to do what he wants, if I am to stay in the band. He and the singer are a couple...so I am far more "replaceable" than anyone else.

Cherie

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by radmin

It will sound different. Playing on fret five moves the pickup closer to the center of the string's vibrating length. This will strengthen the fundamental and weaken the overtones which will make it boomy-er.

Personally I don't use open strings. 1.) my arm tends to go numb if I play in first position too long. With a 5 string everything I need is closer to me. 2.) they are harder to mute quickly. At fret five I just lift up and the sound goes away.

I SO agree with Reason #2! If you don't mute them quickly and correctly, you get this ugly noise. UGH!!!

In your first paragraph, if I understand correctly, you find that playing on the five makes for more "boom", yes? I agree. But this drummer says that playing open is boomier, and gives fatter bottom.

Personally, I'd rather have control and correct notes. But I don't want to lose the gig, either.

Cherie

[Bassplayer92]

Originally Posted by txbasschik

The drummer in the band I am currently in played bass for a short time. He first started on guitar.

He asked me, at practice, why I play up on the five so much. I told him that it is easier for me. When I play open, I lose control over my sound, and lose track of where I am, note-wise. Playing on the five is like a placemarker for me. I can get up or down the neck easily from there. I only play open strings when I have to.

He says that all the best, most-fluid bassists play open, and that it kills him to see my little fingers all over the neck. He feels my sound and playing would be better if I played open.

But I make tons more mistakes when I play open!

So...should I try to learn to play open as much as possible, or not? I don't *like* to...it is uncomfortable. I know my fingers *look* funny when I play on the five, but *I* don't *feel* funny. I feel more confident!

Who is right? Should I try to do what he says?

In case this helps, I've been primarily playing rock...classic, garage, and alternative. Also, alt-country. This new band is primarily blues and soul.

Cherie

I say do what feels the most comfortable to you and allows you to play the best you can. I am the same way, and rarely play a song in anything lower than 3rd position. I love the sound of a note on the 5th fret more than the open string equivilant.

I'd also like to know where this guitar player/drummer and short time bass player found his statistic about all the best players play open. Ridiculous! All the best players play where they are comfortable and where they can nail the part, period.

$.02

[tZer]

Ok gang - stop with all this "I don't play open" stuff...

Use the whole neck. Open, fret 5, fret 24... all are fair game and none should be 'ruled' out. That is like voluntarily limiting your options with is always a bad thing. Next thing I am gonna hear is, "I don't use the G string. It is too high and sounds too much like a guitar..." (JK)

Playing open notes does sound differnt from fret 5 - which is all the more reason to use them occasionally. Sometimes the pure ringing tone of an open string is exactly what a song needs. Other times using an open string as a drone while you melodically play on the next string up is a really great effect.

To stop 'getting disoriented' when you use open strings, well, practice using open strings... Sorry - not being snarky here... Anytime I need to correct a situation like that it always means a trip to the woodshed.

To control the open string so that it does not stick out like a sore thumb, try moving your right hand closer to the bridge so you get a tighter pluck on it. That is if you want that open string to blend with the fretted notes.

You can move your right hand the other way (neckward) and take advantage of that open string's brighter, more distinctive sound as well - it all depends on the context.

Now, repeat after me; I will use all available notes on my neck whether they be open, fretted, tapped, thumped or played with some other body part. All notes are good notes. Let no note be left behind.

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by tZer

Ok gang - stop with all this "I don't play open" stuff...

Use the whole neck. Open, fret 5, fret 24... all are fair game and none should be 'ruled' out. That is like voluntarily limiting your options with is always a bad thing. Next thing I am gonna hear is, "I don't use the G string. It is too high and sounds too much like a guitar..." (JK)

Playing open notes does sound differnt from fret 5 - which is all the more reason to use them occasionally. Sometimes the pure ringing tone of an open string is exactly what a song needs. Other times using an open string as a drone while you melodically play on the next string up is a really great effect.

To stop 'getting disoriented' when you use open strings, well, practice using open strings... Sorry - not being snarky here... Anytime I need to correct a situation like that it always means a trip to the woodshed.

To control the open string so that it does not stick out like a sore thumb, try moving your right hand closer to the bridge so you get a tighter pluck on it. That is if you want that open string to blend with the fretted notes.

You can move your right hand the other way (neckward) and take advantage of that open string's brighter, more distinctive sound as well - it all depends on the context.

Now, repeat after me; I will use all available notes on my neck whether they be open, fretted, tapped, thumped or played with some other body part. All notes are good notes. Let no note be left behind.

There are times when I do use open strings. He wants me to use them *primarily*, however.

I tend to use them when I feel I need that ringing sustain, and can control it, or when the progression works well with open strings. But I don't like to play that way all the time, because I sacrifice so much accuracy.

I use open E and A more than anything else. When I get into using open D and G very often is where I lose track of myself.

I'll practice open scales more and see if that helps.

Cherie :-)

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by Bassplayer92

I say do what feels the most comfortable to you and allows you to play the best you can. I am the same way, and rarely play a song in anything lower than 3rd position. I love the sound of a note on the 5th fret more than the open string equivilant.

I'd also like to know where this guitar player/drummer and short time bass player found his statistic about all the best players play open. Ridiculous! All the best players play where they are comfortable and where they can nail the part, period.

$.02

He mentioned three local bassists he likes...all of them bluesmen. Maybe its a style thing? Maybe I'm playing too "rock"? I turned down my mids and turned up my bass tone, so I wouldn't cut through as much and would sound growlier, trying to please him.

I do use open strings...just not very often. Only when I feel they are truly *needed*. He wants me to use them "all the time"...meaning, primarily. Not sure that's best for me, you know?

Cherie

[jbibb]

My instuctor is trying to get me to see the benefit of the open string...I'm working towards that, however I'm with the others by saying that i have better reference playing at the fifth fret. It comes with experience. Patterns are predictable...etc. Great conversation...I thought I was alone with this dilema.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by txbasschik

There are times when I do use open strings. He wants me to use them *primarily*, however.

I tend to use them when I feel I need that ringing sustain, and can control it, or when the progression works well with open strings. But I don't like to play that way all the time, because I sacrifice so much accuracy.

I use open E and A more than anything else. When I get into using open D and G very often is where I lose track of myself.

I'll practice open scales more and see if that helps.

Cherie :-)

That's the idea - I guess I am a little baffled by this "open playing" as a separate method concept. For me, open, fretted, whathaveyou - it's all playing and I have never separated the use of open strings or fret 5's as different methods.

My teacher did start me on a regimen of scales and arpeggios that started on the first fret and moved up all the way up the neck. I purposefully altered his method and started on the open strings. He saw that and said, "You don't have to start open - you will cover all those notes without open strings." I told him that I use open strings and if I don't practice these exercises using them I will be short-changing myself in being able to use these exercises in the real world.

So apparently you and others here are not alone in this "no open strings" world. It is strange to me.

[rebelbass]

I use open strings a lot. I like the ring I get. Guitar player asked what I was playing on green grass & hightides (outlaws tune). Theres a part (5th fret to the 12 fret cord progression/run). Its em-g to c-d. the c-d part copys the guitar riff,two four note runs) I use the open d string in my run,it sounds cool and makes it easier to move to the next run (also use an open d there!). sometimes if I'm playing an E note I'll fret it at the 7th fret,then play an open E. nice contrast going from fretted note to a lower,big open string.

[vindy500]

there is no right way to play

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by rebelbass

I use open strings a lot. I like the ring I get. Guitar player asked what I was playing on green grass & hightides (outlaws tune). Theres a part (5th fret to the 12 fret cord progression/run). Its em-g to c-d. the c-d part copys the guitar riff,two four note runs) I use the open d string in my run,it sounds cool and makes it easier to move to the next run (also use an open d there!). sometimes if I'm playing an E note I'll fret it at the 7th fret,then play an open E. nice contrast going from fretted note to a lower,big open string.

I like the E7/Open E thing, too. I used that a lot on a Knowbodys original, because it sounded cool, and on a metal tune a friend wrote, because it lends drama.

After reading these posts, I don't know why this drummer is so bugged by how I play. I do use open strings...just not all the time. I don't understand why he wants me to use them for everything. That makes no more sense than to never use open strings.

Well, it seems I must practice more open scales. I don't want to sacrifice my ability to play up the neck, but if I am going to get along in this band, I have to change, I guess.

Cherie

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by jbibb

My instuctor is trying to get me to see the benefit of the open string...I'm working towards that, however I'm with the others by saying that i have better reference playing at the fifth fret. It comes with experience. Patterns are predictable...etc. Great conversation...I thought I was alone with this dilema.

Yes, its good to know other people experience the same thing! I guess we have to practice open more. It does make us more versatile. Still...that drummer made me want to throw something at him, he harped on it so. LOL!

Cherie

[Matthew Bryson]

I feel your pain. I know what it's like to have a know-it-all drummer say "You know, you could use you’re A string instead of playing that at the 5th fret, it might be easier for you." Well, yes. While I appreciate the advice, I did in fact already know that. I learned to tune my instrument the first day I got it and I understand that the open A string and the 5th of my E string make the same note - but they don't sound exactly, the same (tone) and it IS a style thing. What if I want the option of sliding down from that A note every now and then? It's time like these that I wish we had sticks to throw at them!

[tZer]

Originally Posted by Matthew Bryson

I feel your pain. I know what it's like to have a know-it-all drummer say "You know, you could use you’re A string instead of playing that at the 5th fret, it might be easier for you." Well, yes. While I appreciate the advice, I did in fact already know that. I learned to tune my instrument the first day I got it and I understand that the open A string and the 5th of my E string make the same note - but they don't sound exactly, the same (tone) and it IS a style thing. What if I want the option of sliding down from that A note every now and then? It's time like these that I wish we had sticks to throw at them!

Yeah... it never even occurred to me that this was coming from a drummer! Tell him you will do the 'open' thing if he switches to the Buddy Rich, underhanded right hand technique and uses DC-10 marching sticks - cuz you heard that all the best drummers do it that way...

[Bassplayer92]

Originally Posted by vindy500

there is no right way to play

My very first point. There's no right or wrong; do what's comfortable to you and makes your playing as good as it can be.


I never said I didn't use open at all, I just rarely use an open string when I can use the 5th fret on the next one. If I'm playing a fast passage and it's a choice between an open string or a pinky stretch, I'll opt for the open every time.

[HELLonWheels187]

For me there really is no differance weather i play open or note but you got to take into account the tonal differance. I often play the A on the E string for a lower frequency and playing only on the 5th fret your limiting yourself.

[dave_p]

ask you drummer if he plays heel up or down. find some reputable drummers who do the opposite and have a talk with him about it. criticise his grip too if you can.

personally i prefer to play closed positions for consistency in timbre and less overall movement but for some things they do sound great/make playing certain stuf easier
and I play drums heels up/thumbs up
(ask your drummer if thats okay for me)