Playing Punk

[jmcdan3]

Hey all! Im in my early twenties and ive been playing jazz, classical, and moderate rock on bass for about 10 years or so. The problem: a few girls around my way are starting a punk band and they want me to be their bass player. I told them I would consider the idea (since I dont know how to approach this style ). I bought some clash and sex pistols stuff to get myself familier. LOts of pick playing and root notes it seems. The guy in the clash is pretty damn good though! Any advice on WRITING chord progressions in punk and/or riffs? Major scales? I dont hear too much minor bc they may sound like metal. I am most likely going to be the primary composer since they are pretty new to their instruments. Help me out guys please!!!

PS: they are very good looking hehe

[JustOpenYourMind]

Something very important to consider, you shouldn't think about theory and intricate chord progressions in that style. I'm not even sure I ever heard of a punk band that knew theory. it's mostly in the feeling of the song rather than it's structure, most punks songs are based around the same chord patterns.

[GriffinREX]

Good call on the Clash.
Get some Bad Brains and Descendents cds for some more good punk bass reference.

Please don't use the Sex Pistols as a learning tool.

[FutureTense]

Depending on what kind of punk you want to go, I'd suggest MXPX as well. I always enjoyed his basslines.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

PS: they are very good looking hehe

That is the ONLY reason you should need to join them RIGHT NOW!!!!!

[Ben Blumgart]

There are lots of stylistic sub-divisions under "punk"

you should check out Fugazi, Operation Ivy, Propaghandi, Lagwagon, and

DEFINITELY BAD BRAINS and Descendents

and you'll have an idea about the different ways you can go. Also, metal and punk are not that far apart. Punk is an attitude first, music genre second, of course...

[edcars]

+1 on the descendents.....
karl is an awesome bass player. check out ALL too. same guys from descendents but different singer.

check out BLACK FLAG too

[christw]

I'd fire out Rancid too. Matt Freeman was my idol for like a year before I pulled out of my PUNX phase. (It was when I first started so it helped a bit!)

Rise Against are another one I like for sure. Their bass work isn't anything crazy, but simple intros like their "Like The Angel" and little mid-chorus break aways following the vocal melody always make a nice touch.

OH! That was my other comment, use the vocal melody as a reference. It's almost always a good formula, especially if you spice it up a wee bit. (Like Rancid! See "Journey To The End of Easy Bay" and "Radio Havana"

Theory need not apply here! Just play sh-stuff that sounds fitting.

[MarkTAW]

Rancid sounds to my ears like lots & lots of running scales over chords. Really impressive looking/sounding, though. Green Day is the big commercial punk band. Does anyone consider them legitimate yet?

Basically, keep it simple, don't go too harmonically or rhythmically crazy, but otherwise go with what feels good. Keeping it major is a good idea, but don't be afraid of minor stuff.

Other places to go: The Ramones, Bikini Kill (for the ultra "we barely know how to play our instruments) vibe. I also wouldn't shy away from Hole & Nirvana.

[jmcdan3]

i suppose ill keep it simple. she likes to scream too-would that be hardcore? probably the same music structure though?

[dfuruta]

Listen to what the guitarist is doing and don't be ashamed to play repeated root notes. Steady 8ths is generally a good strategy.

Don't think that all punk is simple, though...listen to Melt Banana, The Ex, or Converge for examples.

[Metal Matt]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

i suppose ill keep it simple. she likes to scream too-would that be hardcore? probably the same music structure though?

Well, hardcore is an offshoot of punk so they are similar but there are differences. All the genres and subgenres of underground music make my head hurt sometimes. One of the more notable differences between the two is that punk typically is a non-stop fast paced assault type of deal while hardcore will have breakdowns where guitars and bass are the same pace but the drums go into half time. But like someone else mentioned there are many variations on punk and hardcore, some extremely simple and some that are more complex, noisy and chaotic.

[Muddslide]

Originally Posted by JustOpenYourMind

Something very important to consider, you shouldn't think about theory and intricate chord progressions in that style. I'm not even sure I ever heard of a punk band that knew theory. it's mostly in the feeling of the song rather than it's structure, most punks songs are based around the same chord patterns.

Well, it may be that there weren't many punk bands that were knowledgeable about theory, but punk covered a LOT of territory really. And there were some excellent musicians in punk bands.

Think of Minutemen (with friggin' Mike Watt for the love of jeebus, not to mention George Hurley--probably the finest punk-related rhythm section of all time) or Husker Du.

I know you aren't necessarily saying this, but I hate when people say "Men, punk was just a bunch of snotty, yelling kids who knew two chords making a buncha noise."

Well, that's true about some bands, and I'm glad as hell some of them got to record for posterity.

I dunno...I was in my first punk band in 1981. It was just different. I WILL agree that a high percentage of punk was generic or just terrible, but I'd argue that is true for EVERY genre of music.

But punk really encompassed so much-- synth-punk like Screamers, the more snotty, political stuff like Pistols and early Clash, not to mention the Crass label stuff out of Britain...stuff that was informed by early rock and roll of the 50s like The Ramones and The Damned, artsy stuff like The Fall, Gang of Four, Mission of Burma, completely messy, sloppy noise like Flipper, total meltdown hardcore speed stuff like Die Kreuzen, funk-influenced punk like Minutemen and Beefeater, jazz-influenced punk like Saccharine Trust and Gone, dub and reggae-inspired punk like Bad Brains, country-influenced punk like Dils and Meat Puppets, psych-influenced punk like Mighty Sphincter and Butthole Surfers, etc., etc....I just think people have a kind of cookie-cutter image of what "punk" is, largely based on MTV-type videos and "cutting edge" mall chain stores like Hot Topix.


Ummmm...I've embarrassed myself here a little. Lecture/rant over...

[JehuJava]

Originally Posted by Ben Blumgart

There are lots of stylistic sub-divisions under "punk"

+1

You have the standard, original sex pistol, black flag, clash kinda stuff...nothing difficult to play, but being able to replicate it authentically takes some attitude.

You have the original but progressed through the years Bad Religion kinda stuff...pretty decent basslines...which Lagwagon and Rise Against probably emulate....both are great bands.

Then you got the punk moving into hardcore stuff...Decendendants, All, 7 Seconds, Minor Threat

Plus 1000 other versions of punk depending on the year the band was around.

I'd ask what their influences are and check them out to see what they goal of the project is.

PS...Don't be afraid to add your own style to it.

[Muddslide]

Originally Posted by dfuruta

Don't think that all punk is simple, though...listen to Melt Banana, The Ex, or Converge for examples.

Boredoms also!

And punk resulted in so much stuff...kids who grew up on it really branched out into things that seemed much different from stereotypical "punk", yet wouldn't have happened without punk.

Don Caballero comes to mind. Now THAT band knew theory.

[Muddslide]

Originally Posted by JehuJava

+1

You have the standard, original sex pistol, black flag, clash kinda stuff...nothing difficult to play, but being able to replicate it authentically takes some attitude.

You have the original but progressed through the years Bad Religion kinda stuff...pretty decent basslines...which Lagwagon and Rise Against probably emulate....both are great bands.

Then you got the punk moving into hardcore stuff...Decendendants, All, 7 Seconds, Minor Threat

Plus 1000 other versions of punk depending on the year the band was around.

I'd ask what their influences are and check them out to see what they goal of the project is.

Well spoken.

PS...Don't be afraid to add your own style to it.

It would NOT be punk otherwise.

[JehuJava]

Originally Posted by Muddslide

But punk really encompassed so much-- synth-punk like Screamers, the more snotty, political stuff like Pistols and early Clash, not to mention the Crass label stuff out of Britain...stuff that was informed by early rock and roll of the 50s like The Ramones and The Damned, artsy stuff like The Fall, Gang of Four, Mission of Burma, completely messy, sloppy noise like Flipper, total meltdown hardcore speed stuff like Die Kreuzen, funk-influenced punk like Minutemen and Beefeater, jazz-influenced punk like Saccharine Trust and Gone, dub and reggae-inspired punk like Bad Brains, country-influenced punk like Dils and Meat Puppets, psych-influenced punk like Mighty Sphincter and Butthole Surfers, etc., etc....I just think people have a kind of cookie-cutter image of what "punk" is, largely based on MTV-type videos and "cutting edge" mall chain stores like Hot Topix.


Ummmm...I've embarrassed myself here a little. Lecture/rant over...

[[[[ Recovering from being blasted back to the past]]]]

You're right. The Hot Topic generation has punk whittled down to one specific form. And a form that means nothing in this day and age, might I add. It kills me to see these kids in their chains dangling from their triangle shaped pant legs. Or "I'm crazy...look at my plaid pants!" Come on. Punk is so much more of an attitude and feeling than a brand or style.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with being influenced...but plagiarism is retarded.

[Gawd]

I find when playing punk if I start thinking about theory and stuff I completely lose the emotion and raw feeling of the style.

The main thing with punk is you just need to have fun, and be real. if that means hitting wrong notes, messing up, and just making noise, as long as it's true it will actually fit. most early hardcore punk bands could barely play, but they still sounded great because of the raw power the created.

[Austin Manny]

Originally Posted by edcars

check out BLACK FLAG too

+1
I'm about to have a nervous breakdown!

[Sneckumhaw]

Originally Posted by GriffinREX

Please don't use the Sex Pistols as a learning tool.

They're a staple. Know 'em inside out and then do something more complex if you like. Check out Nomeansno and Richard Hell too, but don't get hung up on listening to too much punk for inspiration. Just grab a bass and go.